He spends $1M per month on ads. And makes $50M per year.
VIDEO - Matt Paulson V1
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Matt Paulson: [00:00:00] I think that's like the biggest mistake. Newsletter operators make these days is like
that's probably where our first 100K people came from.
Dylan Redekop: So you went from doing 1 million a year to almost 1 million a month.
Matt Paulson: Yeah.
Chenell Basilio: That's wild.
Matt Paulson: SMS makes us a lot of money. It's about a third of our revenue is SMS, that much money.
Chenell Basilio: is SMS.
Matt Paulson: Yeah, it's crazy.
When I look at metrics though, I think it really boils down to like two numbers.
It's much money did we make today and then what was my email open rate?
80% of the revenue that we make comes from subscribers that came through paid channels.
Chenell Basilio: Everyone that runs paid ads needs to listen to that again
Matt Paulson: Anybody can go start a beehive list and get some subscribers it's gonna be tough to just be an email list. Are you willing to do stuff that other people aren't willing to do?
Chenell Basilio: Welcome back to the Growth In Reverse podcast. Today we have a very special guest named Matt Paulson who started MarketBeat over a decade ago, probably close to two decades ago, and we are very excited to have him on the show. So Matt, thanks for coming on the show.
Matt Paulson: Yeah, it's weird to like be the old guy in the room now. 'cause I was always the [00:01:00] young entrepreneur and now I'm 40 and got a bunch of 20 and 30-year-old start newsletters and it's like, crap. I'm the old guy now.
Chenell Basilio: Oh, we just look young. Don't worry.
Matt Paulson: Yes. Uh, nice.
Chenell Basilio: but yeah. I guess just to kick us off, do you wanna give like a quick, uh, background story of
Matt Paulson: Mm-hmm.
Chenell Basilio: MarketBeat got started way back when yeah, where it is now?
Matt Paulson: Yeah, so I've been making money on the internet since I was a kid in the nineties, long before Google AdSense was a thing. Even, before WordPress existed, like I had a little website on Geo Cities and then another web hosting company called Hyper Mart, I think. Had like an ad network on there that no longer exists and I was making like 25, 50 bucks a month from it. So as a kid in middle school in the nineties, that was a pretty sweet gig. kind of picked it up again in college, needed money to pay tuition and like.
Job opportunities were McDonald's gas station or grocery store in my small university town and thought, you know, there's gotta be a better way to make money. Um, so I was doing like freelance writing on the internet. I found jobs like on the pro blogger job board that would pay like 10 to $15 an [00:02:00] article, I'd much rather do that than.
Make fries McDonald's for 6 75 an hour. So I did that and then that kind of turned into a personal finance blog 'cause I was like really into Dave Ramsey at the time and into like, trying to graduate from college debt free, which I did. 2009, like during kind of great recession time, I pivoted more towards kind of investing content. 'cause like you could write about. Citibank or Wells Fargo or any of the big banks and like you just get a ton of traffic on your articles, like all the time, like all day, every day.
Washington Mutual had gotten outta business with Kobe, had got outta business, and now everyone was like, what's the new next shoe to drop? You could write about Citibank and get thousands of people to read a story any like every day. It was awesome. So did that, um, then it kind of stuck with the investing content for a while.
I got the MarketBeat name in 2015, and that's kind of. about the time we got the current business model of likes the MarketBeat subscription product plus advertising. And then the business really blew up, uh, during COVID. When everybody was at home, the government was giving people free money to do [00:03:00] whatever with, couldn't go to the casino to gamble.
Sports betting wasn't really a thing yet, so people were like. Gambling in the stock market. This is like the whole GameStop AMC kind of mania that happened in 21. Um, our website was getting a million hits a day when that was going on. And like
Dylan Redekop: Wow.
Matt Paulson: ne have like never returned to that high in terms of traffic, but it was like the best year ever.
21 was. I mean we've, we've since surpassed that with revenue, but now we're kind of growing up as a company, kind of mid eight figures in revenue. We have 20 employees. We've got like an actual legit office and. But for the first 10 years it was just kind of me and a couple of helpers kinda messing around. But, you know, today we're diversified media company.
Our niche is kind of stock market content. But YouTube channel, uh, email, SMS web push, uh, any channels that we think makes sense to be on will be on. We've dabbled with direct mail even. But we're trying to build the biggest or audience around investing in the stock market and then, then monetizing that.
And that's worked pretty well for us.
Dylan Redekop: Wow.
Chenell Basilio: awesome. [00:04:00] How
Matt Paulson: Yeah.
Chenell Basilio: email subscribers are you at right now?
Matt Paulson: So that, that's a hard question. So in our database, it really is.
Dylan Redekop: Yeah.
Matt Paulson: in our database there's 17 million unique addresses. million of them are currently subscribed, 3 million of them have opened in the last 90 days. And like the, the sub subscriber account would be bigger, but we like just kick people off the list when they don't open for a while.
Chenell Basilio: That's awesome. And
Matt Paulson: yeah.
Chenell Basilio: more than half a million subscribers on the YouTube channel. I think you have a half a million SMS subscribers as well. So
Matt Paulson: Yeah, we're close to that.
Chenell Basilio: there. Yeah.
Matt Paulson: Yeah. Um, really in, in, in the last year, like our, our two big growth levers have been SMS 'cause. We've really pushed down on that and that's become a huge revenue stream for us. And then honestly, like doing lists on beehive has been huge for us as well. Like their deliverability is so good.
Like since you're sending from mail.beehive.com, like you don't really have to warm up a new list. And just such a short [00:05:00] co shortcut for deliverability. Like they think their product is like being an email service provider. Like no, the product is actually like your great deliverability. That's why everybody's heading over
Chenell Basilio: Are you
Dylan Redekop: Hmm.
Chenell Basilio: the main newsletter from beehive?
Matt Paulson: Uh, no. So of the thing, one of my lessons in business over, over the years is if you're gonna do, if you want to like, make a big change, don't kill the geese, that's the laying golden eggs. Just go make a new goose. Um, so we just made a new list on beehive and have been, uh, sending traffic over there.
So when you sign up for, like, you go to our website from AdWords, like there'll be a thing on there that says, by signing up, you'll also get a free newsletter from American Market News. That's our beehive list. So if signing people up for the main market list and up for the beehive list and um, that's, that's worked out well for us.
Dylan Redekop: Wow. And I'm curious how big your team is now.
Matt Paulson: Uh, we're at 19 currently
Dylan Redekop: Okay.
Matt Paulson: got a job open soon for number 20. So,
Dylan Redekop: Wow.
Matt Paulson: but those would be like employees. And then on top of that, like all of our freelance writers are contractors. [00:06:00] Uh, none of those people want jobs. Turns out like we've tried to give them jobs, not interested, like they just wanna be freelancers that write for two or three sites.
So we've got another, like 10 of those.
Dylan Redekop: Very cool. And so for people who don't know, um, you mentioned a little bit, but why do people read Market Market Beat? Like what is the, what is the problem that Market Beat and your your affiliate, um, newsletters, I guess what's the problem they solve for their readers?
Matt Paulson: Yeah. I mean the whole business is stock ideas. Everybody's looking for like, what's the next great stock. Um, so we have writers and editors, analysts that kind of. Write about different companies and what's happening with them and why they could be interesting and like what the down, what the risks are with them.
like everybody's looking for the next Nvidia before everybody knows about it, right?
Dylan Redekop: Right.
Matt Paulson: like you are the media company that's writing about all of the companies that could be the next Nvidia. Like it's easy to get attention for that.
Dylan Redekop: Yeah, no kidding. I'm, I guess I'm, I'm curious how you guys have, grown the newsletter and monetize. And I feel like your growth, especially lately, relates a [00:07:00] lot to how you're monetizing, right? Because you're reinvest.
Matt Paulson: Mm-hmm.
Dylan Redekop: Of your revenue into growth. So
can you talk to us a little bit about how you're kind of diversifying that?
Matt Paulson: Yeah, this is what I'm gonna talk about, the new media summit, but really your goal is to make a funnel so profitable that like your. Paid kind of acquisition. This kinda becomes, it gets really easy, so when somebody signs up for MarketBeat, like uh, they go to AdWords, they search best stocks by now, or whatever the keyword is, land on a landing page, like I'm getting your email address.
I'm probably getting your phone number, I'm getting your email address for my beehive list. I am maybe getting you for my push notifications list so I'm not getting one opt, I'm getting four. And then, you know, we can send content and ads through all of the channels. Um, hopefully soon after they'll sign up for our YouTube channel as well.
So, if I can communicate like four or five different ways with people. It's a lot easier to break even than, if I just have kind of one email subscription and then we have a crazy funnel, like after you sign up of different offers and ads. So we can make a chunk of our ad revenue back kind of [00:08:00] day one,
Dylan Redekop: Yeah.
Matt Paulson: we will break even by kind of day 30, 30 to 45 typically.
And then after the end of like 12 months, I'm looking for a ROAS of about three. So spend a dollar, make $3 over a year. We spent 11 million bucks in ads last year. My goal this year is 20.
Dylan Redekop: Wow.
Matt Paulson: to do that, which is actually not that easy to do. But, like, you could do it, but like, can you do it profitably?
Like, 'cause,
Chenell Basilio: Yeah.
Matt Paulson: like you, you don't wanna like jump from like five KA day on Facebook to like 20 k 'cause that won't end well. So it's like you just kind of, kind of keep edging things up and hopefully like the performance sticks. Also like finance is a weird category. Like you talk stock market, anything.
Like we've had a meta account, got get suspended. We've had a, our TikTok ad account get suspended and like, it's not like a person is reviewing your account and be like, these guys are shady. It's all like algorithm saying like, Ooh, this might be a stock scam. We be, we better ban them. And it's just
Dylan Redekop: Yeah.
Matt Paulson: so like you have to deal with that and advertise across different channels.
[00:09:00] 'cause like we're currently on like Google Meta, Bing, TikTok, Taboola. Soon to be critio like, like to spend that much, you just kind of have to be everywhere.
Dylan Redekop: Yeah.
Matt Paulson: Of that, there's like all the co-reg networks of like after offers and investing media solutions and Spark Loop. And then there are like these proprietary like lead share deals that we do.
And then we buy newsletter sponsorships and other people's newsletters. Gotta, you gotta do everything to deploy that much money.
Chenell Basilio: Well,
Matt Paulson: Well.
Chenell Basilio: to it beforehand. So after someone signs up, there are like, 'cause I did it twice
Matt Paulson: Hmm.
Chenell Basilio: times today. There are like
Matt Paulson: Cool.
Chenell Basilio: or five offers that happen
Dylan Redekop: Well, at least.
Chenell Basilio: at least, yeah. How
Dylan Redekop: Yeah.
Chenell Basilio: to the place where like maybe you started with one and then you're like, Nope, let's try another one.
Let's keep going. And then you
Matt Paulson: Yeah.
Chenell Basilio: that number. Like where do you,
Matt Paulson: Uh, it used to be more, I think we're at five pages now. I think it might have been six at once. So if somebody signs up, well, you know, we'll make two to $3 from them typically if they come like through a paid channel. That'll pay, you know, hopefully kind of half of my, what they cost me on a good day.
So [00:10:00] what we do is like, we have different coreg networks. So we have after offers, we have investing media solutions, and then we have kind of our own internal ad inventory served in a variety of different ways. then we look at the data over the last kind of seven days of like saying, okay, what channels are performing well right now?
And then we show that offer first. So it's a very kind of dynamic, order of things, and that's. Really worked well. 'cause like sometimes after office will have the best inventory, like add inventory and pay the most. Sometimes it's IMS, sometimes it's our own stuff and we really, you have to take a data-driven approach to know like, okay, what's gonna pay the most right now?
And then show that first.
Dylan Redekop: And so when you're going through these flows, um, like you said, these are getting shown to your, the people you're acquiring via meta, Google those
ads, those ad networks, but they're also getting shown to organic subscribers that would come to your
site organically. Yeah,
Matt Paulson: the same funnel
Dylan Redekop: Yeah.
Matt Paulson: you sign up.
Dylan Redekop: Okay. And one thing I noticed too, um, and we touched on SMSA little bit, but. And you don't see this. [00:11:00] The reason we're bringing it up is 'cause you don't see it a lot where me and
Chanel in the, the streets we play in where people are asking for SMS, uh, you ask for email address, maybe your first name. But I noticed it was an optional field when I, when I went to sign up for MarketBeat and then I didn't put it in.
And then in the next, the very next offer, in the signup flow was to just submit my, my phone number to get a, a, stock tip sheet or something along those lines.
And so you guys are trying really hard to get SMS. Can you talk to you a little bit about, the value you put on, on phone numbers and, and why you're pushing so hard for those?
Matt Paulson: We are pushing hard for it and it's for a reason.
Dylan Redekop: Yeah.
Matt Paulson: it's that SMS makes us a lot of money. The last week, um, it's, yeah, I guess it's pretty consistent. It's about a third of our revenue is SMS, so like have that much money.
Chenell Basilio: is SMS.
Matt Paulson: Yeah, it's crazy. Um. I mean, we have SMS is expensive to send and there's some compliance stuff that goes along with it,
like we've never been sued over TPA stuff, so that's good.
[00:12:00] Um, SMS is really, like, email was kind of 15 years ago, like before everybody was doing it and it was really easy and you could just send an email and make money, like that's SMS today. So like we'll send the same offers on email, um, that we will on SMS. We just send the subject line and then the link and like, that's basically it.
And like it works.
Dylan Redekop: Wow. On, on on SMS, like just
like, yeah,
Matt Paulson: an SMS like to one of our lists and make five to $10,000.
Dylan Redekop: Hmm.
And so is there, are there limitations to how often and how frequently you can do that?
Matt Paulson: Um, there are time of day limitations.
Dylan Redekop: Okay.
Matt Paulson: ' cause you kinda like, there's. You know, you've, you've got four time zones to deal with and it's kind of like this 8:00 AM to kind of 9:00 PM or, or not, maybe 9:00 AM to 9:00 PM Then you have to account for time zones. So you don't want to e text before like 8:00 AM Pacific or so, and you don't wanna
Dylan Redekop: Yeah.
Matt Paulson: 8:00 PM Eastern.
So there's kinda a limited window. Some people would do one text today, some people would do three. Just [00:13:00] kind of depends.
Dylan Redekop: Hmm.
Matt Paulson: We have three different SMS lists now that people can sign up for in various ways.
Dylan Redekop: Wow.
Chenell Basilio: expensive, right?
Matt Paulson: Oh yeah. Our Twilio bill is $300,000 to $400,000 a month.
Dylan Redekop: Oh, three to
400,000. Wow.
Chenell Basilio: wow, okay. That's a lot. That's like a
Matt Paulson: Yeah. our, I mean, our, our email bill is like $60k or $70k a month, so it's just when you, when you get to be a big company, you have a big list, you end up paying a lot, but.
Dylan Redekop: Yeah.
Matt Paulson: it is. It's like that's the business. It's like a feature of the business.
Dylan Redekop: Right.
So would, yeah. Would a phone number be wor more valuable to you than a, an email
address? Yeah.
Matt Paulson: a factor of five or 10.
Dylan Redekop: So do you see that being, I've, I've heard people talking more and more about it, but do you think it's a slept on strategy that not enough people are leveraging, or do you think it's just that the barrier to entry is a little bit higher because of the cost?
Matt Paulson: I think both are true. higher barrier entry 'cause it's more set up to do. 'cause like you have to figure out how to tie your landing page into a separate SMS kind of system [00:14:00] and like you need some tech skills to do that. Not everybody knows how to do that. Um, some people are afraid of the compliance stuff.
Some people are afraid of the cost. So that barrier to entry makes it like more effective.
Dylan Redekop: Hm.
Chenell Basilio: And what are you sending in SMS? Is this just like, Hey, there's a new piece of content, or is it like stock prices or, or what's going on?
Matt Paulson: so like we have a stock of the day, and then like it'll have some information about the company and then like our latest news story, bought it along with some ads and then like, then we'll also send out separate texts that are just ads and those make a lot of money.
Dylan Redekop: Wow.
Chenell Basilio: Because it's so expensive. Would you recommend sending out just like, Hey, here's a new piece of content, or is it more like, here's a landing page or a sale, or you know, an ad like you're talking about?
Matt Paulson: Yeah. You probably have to be at least 50% ads. Otherwise, like it's just not gonna pay for itself. Like, it's really hard to send a text to like a content. 'cause like whenever I send out a text to our fullest, it's cost me like 2000 bucks. So like, you can't just send it out to. A piece of content with no ads on it.
Like [00:15:00] you have to figure, like, figure out how to at least break even on that. That's that send cost.
Chenell Basilio: So
Dylan Redekop: much are, how much of your, um, traffic, not traffic, sorry. How, what is your kind of breakdown for paid subscribers versus organic subscribers?
Matt Paulson: So subscribe like subscribers that came from paid versus organic.
Dylan Redekop: Yeah.
Matt Paulson: I don't know the count, last time I checked. 80% of the revenue that we make comes from subscribers that came through paid channels.
Dylan Redekop: Okay.
Matt Paulson: So like 10 years ago we would've been primarily organic like that's a great way to build a five or $10 million a year business If you want scale beyond that, like you're looking at just doing a whole bunch of paid.
Dylan Redekop: Yeah. Okay. And since a majority of your subscribers are coming from paid, it would make sense, I guess, that that 80 per 80 20 kind of rule would come into play, that 80% of the revenue would come from from paid channels.
Matt Paulson: Yeah.
Dylan Redekop: Okay. When you look at ROI, like you talked about roas. Um, [00:16:00] how often are you evaluating like, hey, these channels are not driving us, uh, ROI or ROAS anymore?
Matt Paulson: Yeah, so the way we do it is we break every pay channel down into like monthly acquisition cohorts of like, um, say for everybody that came from AdWords that signed up in November. I spent X dollars to acquire them and I've made Y dollars on them. I'll look back at the past monthly cohorts and kind of see how the cohort is aging over time and, you know, hoping that, you know, you'll break even kind of month two or month three and then over the course of 12 months, like, you know, getting year three to one a row as, um, but we do that for every channel, every month, multiple times a month.
We're always looking at the data. Um, like we
Dylan Redekop: Hmm.
Matt Paulson: rebooted our Google AdWord strategy, 'cause we were getting a lot of subscribers that were like three to four bucks. So obviously like good pricing. the, the buy, like the, the rate at which they were buying products from our advertisers was not high enough.
And what we ultimately figured out is like we were running on [00:17:00] like some lower quality websites. They're like, no, we need to like reboot this. And now we're advertising on like Yahoo and Fox News. And. CNN and just more, more legit sites. So we're paying probably twice as much per subscriber that we used to be, but we're getting far more buyers from far fewer people.
' cause like,
Chenell Basilio: everyone that runs paid ads needs to listen to that again, because so many people look at just like the cost per subscriber, and that is not the end
Matt Paulson: no.
Chenell Basilio: It's like that's just gonna raise up your vanity metric more and make you have a less profitable business.
Matt Paulson: Yeah, I think that's like the biggest mistake. Newsletter operators make these days is like you're optimizing for cheap leads, but then you end up getting very low quality leads. My reporting cost per lead is not a metric at all. It's really what did I spend on that cohort versus what did I make?
Chenell Basilio: Yeah, I like
Dylan Redekop: Hmm.
Matt Paulson: And like, yeah, obviously if I'm paying 30 bucks a lead, it's never gonna work. But like I have leads, I'm paying 15 bucks a lead for and it's profitable.
Chenell Basilio: Your business is like [00:18:00] almost, I would say like 90% affiliate sponsors the lead, lead gen type of deals,
Matt Paulson: Mm-hmm.
Chenell Basilio: your own product, but I, I've heard you say it's like it's only making around 3 million a year, so it's like a
Matt Paulson: Yes.
Chenell Basilio: piece of the pie.
Matt Paulson: Yeah. It turns out like the stock research software business is not great. A great business. 'cause it's like how many people are like, want to research stocks like. Every month. not that many people, people like really get into the market and wanna go buy stocks, but it's not like people, most people have just like extra money sitting around to like go research new companies and buy them every month.
So it's just a, it's a pretty limited market and there's a lot of competitive tools. It's really more on the kind of financial publishing side where the opportunity is. But also like investor relations campaigns. We run those, different FinTech companies, credit card offers, you name it, finance related.
We've ran it and if it works, we keep running it.
Chenell Basilio: Yeah,
Dylan Redekop: your audience mostly, um, like [00:19:00] a person like myself who would just be. Have a, you know, Robin Hood account looking at stocks to
buy? Or are you more sophisticated, uh, a more sophisticated buyer, even somebody who's working in the finance industry.
Matt Paulson: It is a mix. I would say our audience is primarily retail investors, tends to skew a little bit older. The people that, like we, the only started investing during COVID, it's almost like an entirely different cohort of people. Like
Dylan Redekop: Okay.
Matt Paulson: like, what stock did Nancy Pelosi buy versus fundamentals.
Um, our crowd tends to be more fundamental based and less like. Looking for signals based off what other people are doing.
like there's a company outta Chicago called Quiver Quant that talked to those guys every now and then. But you know, their whole thing is like what stocks are, what stocks are Congress, buy, and like what stocks, like what companies are going up in Google Trends, um, and
Dylan Redekop: Hmm.
Matt Paulson: looking for more like signals like that versus like, what's the company's price to earnings ratio.
Um. the dividend that, you know, our
Dylan Redekop: Right.
Matt Paulson: of [00:20:00] stuff.
Dylan Redekop: So that's, they're more like the GameStop a MC, kind of like,
uh,
Matt Paulson: More of the YOLO crowd.
Dylan Redekop: Yes. The YOLO crowd. Yeah. I love it.
Chenell Basilio: It was fun during COVID, what
Dylan Redekop: Yeah.
Matt Paulson: Yeah.
Dylan Redekop: Everyone was bored.
Chenell Basilio: Yeah.
Matt Paulson: Mm-hmm.
Chenell Basilio: great. Um, all right, so we talked a little bit about monetization. Monetization. I'm curious, like now you have three to 6 million subscribers depending on what metric you're looking at, but how would, how did you start out, like, how did you get those first, like 10,000, a hundred thousand email subscribers?
Like, take us back way
Matt Paulson: Yeah.
Chenell Basilio: you've been doing this for a while.
Matt Paulson: Yeah, so it was all Um, had a website. The original name was Analyst Ratings Network, which later became Market Feed. we would publish, you know, we had pages about stocks, and then we would publish these automated new stories about stocks. So like company announces their quarterly earnings, we would stick the numbers into a template, publish out on our website.
It would get picked up by Google News. would go to go to [00:21:00] the article, to click through to read it, and then there would be a pop-up. And the cool thing about the pop-up, it was like specifically geared toward the company that was like on the page. So somebody came to read an article about Tesla, like, or I guess Tesla wasn't a thing back then.
Um, you know about Apple like then. Then the opt-in would say like. Do you want to be notified whenever there's new news about Apple stock and then like to have the logo on it? And, um, that worked really well. Um, and it was just like an obnoxious light box popup that showed up right away. People would sign up and like we got, that's probably where our first 100K people came from.
Chenell Basilio: And you were putting out just like tons of those articles, like using a
Matt Paulson: Oh yeah.
Chenell Basilio: You
Matt Paulson: a day. Yep. Automated. It was great. It was the best.
Chenell Basilio: Before
Dylan Redekop: the pop.
Chenell Basilio: this was
Matt Paulson: Yeah.
Chenell Basilio: I.
Matt Paulson: Yeah. 'cause it, I mean, it was just think like madlibs, it's like this company announced their earnings on this date. It was this per share compared to the estimate of this per share. They had revenue of this compared to the estimated revenue of this number.
And like you just kind of fill in the [00:22:00] blanks.
Dylan Redekop: And then the popups are also automated
Matt Paulson: Yeah.
Dylan Redekop: yeah.
Wow.
Matt Paulson: it's just JavaScript light box
Dylan Redekop: Yeah. Dang.
Chenell Basilio: awesome. And then from there, did it were, did you continue doing organic stuff? Like was it SEO still, or did you start moving into more paid ads after you hit that? That
Matt Paulson: You know, it wasn't really like, we always kind of did paid ads. It just like the budget was never more than, maybe it was like 50 to a hundred thousand dollars a month for a long time. And it was really only the last two or three years that we've kind of started ramping it up. Uh, mostly 'cause like I didn't know how to buy ads effectively.
One, we didn't have the monetization funnel like dialed in, which we do now. But we went from like 1 million in kind of pre COVID a year. know, by 23 we're doing 5 million. Last year we did almost 12 million in ads, and this year I'm hoping to spend 20.
Dylan Redekop: So you went from doing 1 million a year to almost 1 million a month.
Matt Paulson: Yeah.
Chenell Basilio: [00:23:00] That's wild.
Matt Paulson: But like you, it sounds awesome, but like Motley Fool spent a hundred million dollars in ads in 2021.
Dylan Redekop: Right.
Matt Paulson: like, it sounds awesome, but
Dylan Redekop: Yeah,
Matt Paulson: there's like, there's another mountain to climb and I'm gonna
Dylan Redekop: yeah.
Yeah.
That's, that's pretty cool.
Matt Paulson: Mm-hmm.
Chenell Basilio: you've been running this for almost two decades at this point, right?
Matt Paulson: Yeah. So I opened my Google AdSense account December 26th, 2006. For my personal finance
Dylan Redekop: Dang.
Chenell Basilio: So
Matt Paulson: uh, company. Yeah, that, that's gonna be cool today.
Chenell Basilio: Yeah.
Matt Paulson: company Incorporated, 2008. Started doing the investing stuff. 2010. Got the market be named 2015, to be a real company in 2019 and hire employees and get an office.
So I was very much an evolution over time.
Dylan Redekop: So anybody who's listening to this and is in year one and is like, I've got a great idea, but this is hard, persist. And you could be, you could be, Matt's a good example of what happens when you're, when you, um, you see things
through and you, you just
keep going, right?
Matt Paulson: the type of business that's simple to understand, [00:24:00] but very hard to do at scale.
Dylan Redekop: Mm-hmm. Yep.
Matt Paulson: It's like, I mean, you heard all the places we advertise,
Dylan Redekop: Mm-hmm.
Matt Paulson: know, we run 10 different lists, three different SMS lists. We probably have 30 to 40 advertisers in any given month. We've got a very sophisticated ad serving system to decide what ad to serve, where and when.
And it's
Dylan Redekop: Right.
Matt Paulson: Anybody can go start a beehive list and get some subscribers and kind of send the ads that beehive has and like, you know, you'll make money doing that. But like to do it at scale is, it's very complicated.
Dylan Redekop: Yeah. Yeah.
I, I meant in no way to diminish what you're doing, I
just wanted to show that you,
you're an example of what can be done. Of course.
An outlier example of it. Yeah.
Chenell Basilio: on the same topic though, Matt, like how do you, how do you stay focused for that long? Like on one thing, because I know after a couple years it has to get like very, you know, doing the same thing over and over, like different but similar. Uh,
Matt Paulson: Yeah, I've had a lot of side projects over the years. So that's helped. Like the startup ecosystem organization in our town. I [00:25:00] had a few different kind of side businesses over the years, had a business that helped animal shelters raise money through a software service thing. I have a venture capital fund on the side. Now, just kind of just do other like,
Chenell Basilio: play a little bit.
Matt Paulson: yeah, 'cause like if you spend, if you try to over optimize things, sometimes you end up like. If you do a test, like you need to give it room to breathe and like time to get data. If you try to like over-optimize and stuff, it tends to be counterproductive.
Like if you do something new, like you gotta give it a week or two to like see if it's working. You need something to do in the meantime. And it's, for me, it's fun to have other stuff to do. Like my latest thing is I'm apparently now a consultant um,
Chenell Basilio: I saw this on Twitter, so you
Matt Paulson: well.
Chenell Basilio: like put up a tweet and had made almost $100K in a
Matt Paulson: Yeah, made $100K and then like the people from intro.com reached out and like, Hey, you should be on intro.
And I was like, okay, it sounds great. So now I've had two intro calls, like some guy last night at 10:00 PM booked me for this morning. I was like, oh, okay. So I hopped on a call, I mean, I made like [00:26:00] 1500 bucks for 30 minutes, but was like, oh, I guess, uh, I should maybe think about how, how much I wanna do that.
Chenell Basilio: Yeah. Or
Matt Paulson: it's just kinda,
Chenell Basilio: barriers.
Dylan Redekop: Mm-hmm.
Matt Paulson: I kind don't mind doing it, maybe like not let people book the same day.
Chenell Basilio: Yeah.
Dylan Redekop: Yeah.
Yeah.
Matt Paulson: fun.
Chenell Basilio: leeway.
Matt Paulson: It was a great conversation and hopefully point, I mean, it's a 25-year-old guy trying to start a media company, hopefully pointed him in the right direction.
Chenell Basilio: Are you finding through that, that you're giving any like consistent advice to people like.
Matt Paulson: You know, it's, it's all very different. Some people do infin, like financial media, but a lot of other kind of niches too. Um, I, I think what. lot of, like my clients have kind of missed is like, what does the entire end-to-end picture look like of, buying, buying traffic to a landing page that turns into email.
SMS push, email number two, and then like developing like a flywheel of content where you're sending something new every day that people are interested in. And then like, what does [00:27:00] your monetization look like on the backend? And then how do you repeat that cycle like. I mean, that's what this whole business is, is like getting people to your top of your funnel, getting 'em money on your list.
Send 'em content. Send them ads. Send them for your stuff, monetize them, take that money, reinvest in ads, and just repeat that process as largely and as quickly as you can.
Dylan Redekop: One big flywheel.
Matt Paulson: Yes.
Dylan Redekop: Yep.
Wow.
Chenell Basilio: Have you found anything over, I mean, the last 19 or so years that has been like a huge, I don't know, like any huge mistakes you've made or any, any stumbling blocks or anything like that throughout the years?
Matt Paulson: No. I mean, I don't think so. Only gotten sued twice and both times over dumb stuff. Nothing that was like a multi-year mistake. Maybe one mistake, I had a partner for a little while that was 10% partner, my partner just wasn't as committed to the business as I was, and I ended up buying 'em out.
like, if you're gonna have a partner, make sure they're as equally into it as you are. [00:28:00] There's that, you know, I, I do plenty of things that don't work, but like is to just say, okay, it didn't work. And then like, rip out whatever the thing was and move on to the next thing. We had a podcast that didn't work out and just killed it after, I think we did it for two years and like could never get more than 500 downloads and episode. It was like, okay, that's enough of that. Let's get rid of it.
So like being, being willing to like. Not give, like just murder your sacred cows and move on to the next thing of like, well, we used to do that, but not anymore.
Dylan Redekop: What about the, uh, market Beat YouTube channel? Um.
Matt Paulson: yeah.
Dylan Redekop: Talk to us a little bit about that because it's nearly 600,000 subscribers and you guys publish content just about every weekday,
if not every weekday. Um, what's the, what's the goal of the channel? Like what's, uh, what's driving that?
Matt Paulson: Yeah, so we're at 575,000 subscribers now, which is awesome.
Dylan Redekop: Yeah, that's
great. I.
Matt Paulson: we hired a gal who was like the anchor of the local news to run it. turns out when you tell people, tell a, tell a mom who's got a couple kids, Hey, do you wanna not work at 10:00 PM at night? Like, pretty easy sell. [00:29:00] so we hired Bridget from the local news and she runs her channel and, uh, we're building out a studio for her.
It is profitable. Um, not like compared to market beat, not huge, but you know, it's maybe a million dollar a year business right now and like wanna keep growing that. Really just wanted to try like, that was like, kind of got bored, wanted to try something new. It's like,
Dylan Redekop: Yeah.
Matt Paulson: channel.
Here we are.
Chenell Basilio: Is it profitable through like, probably not YouTube ads, but is it like email, again, email
Matt Paulson: Mm-hmm.
Chenell Basilio: the, the flywheel of that and you're just being able to say like, Hey, they came from YouTube.
Matt Paulson: Yeah, it's a mix of things. So it's like one AdSense on YouTube,
Chenell Basilio: Yeah.
Matt Paulson: but we've also experimented with promoting some of our advertisers offers on YouTube directly. Like that's worked. Um, you know, we're always trying to drive leads back into our main funnel. Um, and those tend to be pretty valuable leads when they come from YouTube.
Dylan Redekop: Yeah.
Matt Paulson: people as we can get to like, go download a free report and get into our funnel, like, we wanna have that happen. Um, we've had some sponsored videos where like, small public companies will pay us [00:30:00] $7,500 to be featured in a video, some stuff like that. So it we're still kind of in the figure it out phase.
We've also tried some of the more traditional YouTube ads, sent us a rowing machine and Bridget did a video on the rowing machine. And like that we got a free rowing machine for a gym out of it. So that was cool. just we're, we're still trying to figure it out. It's going well, but,
Chenell Basilio: So YouTube is working. Are you, looking at your organic sources of email and SMS subscribers
like, What is the, the most valuable, uh, channel at this point?
Matt Paulson: Like on a per lead basis.
Chenell Basilio: Yeah. Like I guess, I don't know. Yeah.
Matt Paulson: Um. Like for paid. Um, it would be like the newsletter sponsorships we buy on other newsletters. Like they tend to be the most expensive per lead, but also the highest per user. Um, the organic side, I'd probably say it's our people that come from YouTube. They tend to be pretty high revenue per user.
Dylan Redekop: Are you doing much another in social media as part of growth anywhere else, like organic, like you have [00:31:00] your Twitter account, of course, which,
which will drive a bit of, uh, readership, but are you guys doing anything else with like market beat the brand on like LinkedIn or Threads, Instagram, you know, any other channels like that?
Mm-hmm.
Matt Paulson: tried that a few times over the year and we've just never got a lot of traction with it. Obviously there are like accounts on Twitter that are very market focused and. I just don't think they make any money. But yeah, it's just never worked for us. I've
Dylan Redekop: Yeah.
Matt Paulson: Never been able to figure it out, so, so maybe somebody probably has, but not me. So we, we,
Chenell Basilio: so
Matt Paulson: yeah, we, we really half-assed our social media efforts.
Dylan Redekop: Well, you whole ass the other stuff though. So it's, uh.
Matt Paulson: Like, but, but I mean, I've been trying Twitter from for 15 years and like Yeah. Never quite figured it out. Like one of the gals in the office is posting memes to a Twitter account now, and it, it's grown a little bit, but we don't make any money from it.
Dylan Redekop: Right. Right. And then you just use it as a, a place to just chat. Like, I dunno, build a kind of a, I don't wanna [00:32:00] use the term personal brand, but kind of as a face of the company, that sort
of type of, Yeah,
Matt Paulson: B Twitter account has like 18,000 followers and, it doesn't get a lot of engagement. Twitter is just kind of my, my personal like where I like to post stupid stuff.
Dylan Redekop: Yeah. Yeah,
Matt Paulson: also apparently where I get consulting clients from, but
Chenell Basilio: Exactly.
Dylan Redekop: where you
can make 1500 bucks daily making, uh, calls. Yeah.
Uh, that's great.
Uh.
Chenell Basilio: You keep. So when we asked you a couple of questions, I noticed you keep looking
Matt Paulson: Hm
Chenell Basilio: like your thing. Do you have like a dashboard that shows you like
Matt Paulson: mm-hmm.
Chenell Basilio: acquisition costs?
Matt Paulson: Yep.
Chenell Basilio: yeah.
Matt Paulson: I've got, I got numbers for everything. I've got it on my phone. It's like a mobile version of it.
Chenell Basilio: thing you built out?
Matt Paulson: Yep. It's, it's, yeah, it's got all the subscriber data from today. It's got revenue data from today, uh, open rates, all that kind of stuff. When I look at metrics though, I think it really boils down to like two numbers.
It's one, how much money did we make today [00:33:00] and then what was my email open rate? Because like deliverability is like so of a challenge these days, especially when you're emailing millions of people
Dylan Redekop: Yeah.
Matt Paulson: to do. So like we're constantly monitoring that and trying to optimize it and. Really I just wanna keep my kind of global open rate above about 40%.
And I know if I'm doing that, I'm getting pretty good deliverability.
Dylan Redekop: Chenell, when we were talking before you hopped on Matt, um, we had both heard you mention about that deliverability challenge when you have over a million subscribers. And so you guys decided to start a couple other newsletters can you talk to us a little bit about that? Like how did you decide what to create?
How did you like segment those subscribers? Like what, what did that process look like?
Matt Paulson: So I don't know what it is, but like email is tend to melt like after about a million people. It's like you, they only get above a certain size and then, 'cause then you're like emailing so many people at once, your deliverability becomes harder, you get higher unsubscribe rates. it's harder to get, I don't know.
you know, We have 6 million subscribers. I think our biggest one is maybe like [00:34:00] 2 million, and it's just, it's really hard to maintain that. So my thought is we just go make another one. And that tends, that's worked pretty well for us. You know, we have kind of four, four main lists. We've got two lists on beehive.
We've got some lists with partners where we provide the content. They provide the leads. I think it totals out like 11, 12, 13, something like that. Lists.
Dylan Redekop: Okay. And so the, these aren't just like. Uh, like market B daily
on beehive? It's like different branded newsletter,
or are they the same?
Matt Paulson: Yeah. So if you go to like Early Bird Publishing, we have a newsletter called The Early Bird.
Dylan Redekop: Okay.
Matt Paulson: different content from Market Beat, slightly branded as Market Beat, my thought is like if you are in the investing space. Well likely you get 50 to a hundred emails a day.
I'm like, do you wanna be one of those or do you wanna be five of those or do you wanna be 10 of those?
'Cause people sign up for all sorts of different brands and like, you wanna have mindshare and market share, you need to have more than one brand.
Dylan Redekop: And are all those different newsletters, like cross-promoting [00:35:00] each other's? Well then,
Matt Paulson: Uh, sometimes. Yeah.
Dylan Redekop: yeah. Okay. Hmm.
Wow.
Matt Paulson: somebody's on Market Beat and they're like on the insider trades page four or five times, like I'm probably just gonna sign them up for the insider trades list. 'cause I know they're interested in that.
Dylan Redekop: Yeah. Huh?
Chenell Basilio: Oh, this is so interesting and you could, I mean, I don't know that you would, but you could hypothetically sell these, like if you wanted like a little cash injection, be like, Hey, I'm gonna go sell early Bird for, you know, whatever. Not that you would, but.
Matt Paulson: Yeah, you could. Um, and I know people, I know a guy that like an email list and then like he made a second email list, like from the same leads and then just sold the second email list.
Chenell Basilio: Ooh, I don't love that.
Matt Paulson: yeah, I don't love it either,
Dylan Redekop: Yeah.
Matt Paulson: been done. And I, I definitely don't recommend, like, I don't, I don't sell email lists.
I don't buy email lists. M&A is not something I'm good at. And. Just like don't wanna be good at,
Dylan Redekop: Hmm.
Chenell Basilio: Yeah.
Matt Paulson: like people think you have money. Like everybody wants you to go acquire their business for some money. That [00:36:00] makes no sense.
Dylan Redekop: Right.
Matt Paulson: it's just better to say like, no, we don't acquire other email lists.
Dylan Redekop: What about people coming around looking to acquire Market Beat?
Matt Paulson: Yeah, let's come up. Everybody gets like the random, like, we have an acquirer for your business. And it's like, yeah, sure you do buddy.
Dylan Redekop: Right.
Matt Paulson: Those, emails, like everybody gets those every day. Like we get those. We've had one serious offer from one of our largest advertisers like, Hey, you should keep being market beat, but you should do it under umbrella, our umbrella.
And it's thought pretty hard about that. And I ultimately said nah, I don't, I don't wanna do that. Like, it's like what I'm doing and like, I don't, I don't want a boss. I don't wanna be part of some bigger company where I've gotta fly out to the coast every month for meetings and just like no interest in that.
Dylan Redekop: I don't blame you.
Chenell Basilio: Do you think you'd ever sell or do you wanna do this for. 20 or so
Matt Paulson: No, I will run this business until the day that I'm dead. I, don't wanna do anything else. I love this business. I love the people that work there, um, makes great money. I'm not [00:37:00] bored of it at all. There's always something fun and new to do. Plenty of flexibility with it. So like it is, it's, it's my baby and will be until, .
Chenell Basilio: That's awesome. I love to hear that. 'cause
Dylan Redekop: Yeah.
Chenell Basilio: you know, they get so burned out and they just like run themselves into the ground and then they feel like they have to sell. So I'm glad you're not in that space.
Dylan Redekop: Yeah,
Chenell Basilio: I.
Matt Paulson: and I don't, I never really understood that. 'cause like if it's your business and you built it you get burned out from it, it's kind of like your fault that you built a business that burned you out.
Dylan Redekop: That's a good
point,
Matt Paulson: Like if you, like, there's stuff that I don't do in market beat. Like you can't call market beat and talk to somebody.
'cause like, I don't, we, we don't want that. Like,
Dylan Redekop: right.
Matt Paulson: we, we build constraints around the business that like, there's just certain things we won't do 'cause we don't wanna deal with it we've been encouraged to, like, you should go be a financial publishing company and make these personality driven newsletters that cost 200 bucks a year.
Yeah, I don't wanna do that. Like, it's just [00:38:00] not, not, not interesting to me, like, no, thank you.
Chenell Basilio: Have you always been like, been like this? I feel like you're very levelheaded. You're very like, you
Matt Paulson: Mm-hmm.
Chenell Basilio: I'm just curious where that came from.
Matt Paulson: Yeah. I don't know. Um, like
Chenell Basilio: Not
Matt Paulson: I have small.
Chenell Basilio: session or anything. I'm
Matt Paulson: I've, I, you know, I've got,
Chenell Basilio: It's admirable.
Matt Paulson: I've got small children at home that want dad to be at home in the evenings. My kid doesn't want me to work on Saturdays. She wants me to go to Target and go to the science museum and so I'm kind of constrained like in ways of like, yeah, I can work eight to five and I can maybe work Saturday mornings before the kids get up.
But like, I don't wanna work 60, 70 hours a week anymore. Like, I don't need to.
Dylan Redekop: Yeah. And you've kept the business pretty close to your roots too, right? Like you haven't uprooted everything and moved to like New York City or, a big town somewhere like your, were you based again, Matt?
Matt Paulson: Sioux Falls, South Dakota.
Dylan Redekop: Sioux Falls, South Dakota. Yeah.
Matt Paulson: in our, the fancy new office building is like maybe 2000 feet away from my original office 10 years ago.
Dylan Redekop: Wow.
Matt Paulson: was [00:39:00] just like a single office for me that was like 12 by 12. So like, I can see my old office out out our window, like we haven't gone far.
Chenell Basilio: I know we have like 10 minutes left, but I'm just curious. How you think about the future of newsletters? Do you think it's gonna be more SMS driven? Do you think it's gonna be more like holistic?
Just have an email list, you should have YouTube and Instagram and all those things, or how do you think about it?
Matt Paulson: Yeah, I do think companies have to be multi-channel these days. I think it's gonna be tough to just be an email list. I think you have to be, think of yourself as a media company where it's really not even hub and spoke, but more of a network where you have all your channels point to each other, like your email points to your Instagram, which points to your YouTube, which points to your SMS.
Like every channel, which should point to every other channel. And kind of be a web or a network. ' cause people will find you on all of the, like any place that has discoverability and then like from the place they land, you can point them to all your other stuff and, you know, somebody might unsubscribe from your email, but they may may still subscribe to you on YouTube.
And I think there's just the way it is and needs to be moving [00:40:00] forward.
Chenell Basilio: It makes a CRM tool very hard to, to find a good one though, when you have so many channels.
Matt Paulson: I think you, you don't need, it's gonna be multiple tools
Dylan Redekop: Yeah.
Matt Paulson: Okay if like your email list and your SMS list are not connected to each other. Like, it's really not that big of a deal. like our web push stuff is not connected to our email and our SMS at all. And like sometimes we can fig, sometimes we can tie like a. A web push user to a, like a market beat user, but most of the time not. But all the tools are out there now. Like you don't need to go build anything. Like you can use beehive, you could use whatever. For SMS, all the financial publishing people use something called Lime Cellular for some reason.
Chenell Basilio: I'm always just someone who loves to see like the full picture, and it's not always possible. So
Dylan Redekop: Yeah.
Chenell Basilio: how do
Dylan Redekop: Are there
Chenell Basilio: you correlate that, sorry, Dylan,
Dylan Redekop: No, go ahead.
Chenell Basilio: with like, um, sub like, uh, sponsors and ads, ad deals? So like,
Matt Paulson: Mm-hmm.
Chenell Basilio: so many email subscribers, you have some push notification people, most of them are [00:41:00] probably pretty similar. Like, you probably have a lot of overlap.
Like how does that work in your, in the way you structure deals with them?
Matt Paulson: Mo most of our stuff is performance based, where, know, we're getting a fee per sale. So when that's the case, people don't really care where the person comes from. Um, when it's a CPC deal, sometimes they might say email only SMS only, There's kind of a hierarchy of like click value, like people think email clicks are the most valuable.
SMS is the second most valuable. web clicks and push clicks are less valuable, so they may only want like email clicks or SMS clicks and that's fine. sometimes we do flat fee deals for certain types of advertisers. It all just kind of depends. There are kind of benchmarks like our, like CPC traffic.
It tends to be like four 50 click. we've got some really good anti-bot kind of stuff to make sure they're real clicks. But the performance stuff is probably kind of a bread and butter because like there's no, like, there's no caps to it. Like they'll take as many customers as you can give
Dylan Redekop: Mm-hmm.
Matt Paulson: It's all [00:42:00] performance based, so they don't care where you run, they just wanna make sure you, like, they approve your copy or use their copy. so that way you're not like saying, you know, this expert's gonna make you 10000% overnight.
Chenell Basilio: Yeah, especially in your field,
Matt Paulson: Mm-hmm.
Chenell Basilio: space, it's gotta be tough.
Dylan Redekop: I was gonna ask you, um, before I forgot it, in terms of sponsorships, because that's such a huge part of your, your business. How are, how are you handling. Outbound or inbound, like how much of your business, I guess, with sponsorships is, you know, people just coming to you saying, Hey, we want, we wanna partner with you, we wanna do work with you.
Or how much of it is like a, you have a team going out and trying to find new sponsors and partners?
Matt Paulson: Yeah. We do no outbound sales at all. Uh, we don't do any outreach to anybody. It's typically all like media buyers talking to each other and like, Hey, you should go talk to MarketBeat. We have, according to my list this month, we have 45 kind of unique companies advertising. The smallest is maybe like 5,000 this month, and the largest is [00:43:00] $270,000.
We've done probably. Four and a half million this month will probably end north of five in ads.
Dylan Redekop: And that's with no bound salespeople going to,
you know, they have to pay.
Matt Paulson: Yeah, no, they come to us,
Dylan Redekop: Yeah.
Matt Paulson: and it tends to be the same ones every month. So like in any given month, we might be onboarding one new advertiser, and like if their stuff doesn't perform well, like we won't run it. And we'll just kind of say like, sorry, like, your stuff's not competitive without, with what else is out there and,
Dylan Redekop: It's funny.
Chenell Basilio: you get to fire the sponsors instead of the other way around.
Dylan Redekop: I was gonna say, it's,
funny because where we come from, it's like people are like, oh dude, your, your newsletter, my ad got like, you know, crap for clicks.
I'm not gonna rebook with you. And with you it's the other way around. It's like, your stuff is not performing. We don't want to show it. .
Matt Paulson: That's kind of one of the misconceptions that new advertisers have, and. People reach out to us and say, Hey, I wanna advertise. And they're our first question is like, okay, what do you wanna advertise? Versus yeah, we're, we'll, take your money. Like, people don't realize, coming to us with like a checkbook is [00:44:00] not necessarily enough to like
Dylan Redekop: Yeah.
Matt Paulson: It's like, Okay, what do you wanna promote? Like, what's the price points? What is it? and like it's gotta be on par with the other stuff that we promote. Otherwise, if we don't think it's gonna get a good click through rate, we just probably won't, won't do it.
Dylan Redekop: Do you ever do flat fee insertions?
Matt Paulson: Yeah, we do. You really have to know who you're dealing with and 'cause like it could be somebody like trying to man, manipulate the price of a stock that they own. We only take investor relations campaigns from three people and I've known them all for five years and know like where they all live and all that kinda stuff.
Like somebody emails us outta the blue and says, Hey, we wanna run an ad to promote a company. We won't even respond 'cause there's just too much risk with that.
Chenell Basilio: I
Dylan Redekop: Yeah.
Chenell Basilio: into the relationship side of things you are.
Matt Paulson: Mm-hmm.
Chenell Basilio: I guess after a certain time it's just like, yeah,
Matt Paulson: Yeah.
Chenell Basilio: and I'm only working with the people I know and like, and
Matt Paulson: Yeah.
Chenell Basilio: it.
Matt Paulson: like, we'll,
Chenell Basilio: for the next five years.
Matt Paulson: We'll get on plane, go see people. We, there's a big annual event called Financial Marketing Summit in Orlando that we go to every year. Like a [00:45:00] bunch of the Fin Pub people are gonna come to New Media Summit. 'cause I was just talking it up and like we'll have dinner with people that we know and a lot of it, like people will come to Sioux Falls and just come visit Sioux Falls and like hang out at our office.
Like it's a very tight-knit industry.
Dylan Redekop: It's, it's nice to hear. 'cause
you, I feel like a lot of that would be so transactional. It's nice to hear there's so much, there's a lot more behind that.
Matt Paulson: Yeah, I mean the day, like it's gotta work, like most of our big advertisers, I've been probably like in their house or at least out to a restaurant with them. These are all people we know. I can call 'em on the cell phone, that kind of stuff.
Dylan Redekop: I think that that speaks to a lot of the success in my mind that you're having is just that you're willing to do that and, and, uh, make those connections, build those relationships. So that's really cool.
Matt Paulson: So like, are, are you willing to do stuff that other people aren't willing to do?
Dylan Redekop: That's great.
Chenell Basilio: I love that.
Dylan Redekop: Mm-hmm.
Chenell Basilio: Um, well, cool. I mean, this has been
Matt Paulson: Mm-hmm.
Chenell Basilio: I
Dylan Redekop: Yeah.
Chenell Basilio: you coming on the show.
Matt Paulson: Mm-hmm.
Chenell Basilio: great. Always [00:46:00] good to connect. I feel
Matt Paulson: Mm-hmm.
Chenell Basilio: we've kind of interacted for a few
Matt Paulson: Yeah.
Chenell Basilio: never actually jumped on
Matt Paulson: Yeah. Kind
Chenell Basilio: glad to
Matt Paulson: shifts passing at night. But it's good to finally connect, uh,
Chenell Basilio: totally.
Matt Paulson: You certainly see you at New Media Summit a month from now,
Dylan Redekop: Mm-hmm.
Chenell Basilio: I'm excited to hang out.
Matt Paulson: Yeah, that'll be a, a fun event. Yep.
Dylan Redekop: Yeah.
Looking forward to that.
It's gonna be fun.
Cool.
Chenell Basilio: Dylan MC'ing, it'll be good.
Matt Paulson: Oh,
Dylan Redekop: Yeah. Yeah, that's right. Yeah.
Chenell Basilio: Yeah.
Dylan Redekop: Yeah. It'll be fun. Looking forward to it.
Chenell Basilio: uh, everybody who is looking to get more and learn more from Matt should go over to his Twitter profile. We'll put the link in the description below. I think
Matt Paulson: Yep. My minute new, not anymore. Now I'm @MediaKing.
Dylan Redekop: Oh.
Matt Paulson: to get a new handle, and now I'm @MediaKing on Twitter.
Dylan Redekop: Is there anyone else we should, uh, send people
point people to?
Matt Paulson: Probably the main place. Um,
Dylan Redekop: Okay.
Matt Paulson: like a quarterly Matt Paulson newsletter@mattpaulson.com if you wanna get that.
Dylan Redekop: Oh, nice. Okay.
Matt Paulson: very, very light for frequencies. So if you want like five emails from me a year, like go to [00:47:00] mattpaulson.com.
Chenell Basilio: Well, Matt, thanks for coming on the show and uh, we'll talk to you next month. I guess we'll see you
Dylan Redekop: Yeah. See
you in a month.
Matt Paulson: good. Looking forward to it.
