This Newsletter Sold For $150m (And Why It Matters)
EP 50 - Big Happenings in the Newsletter Space
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[00:00:00]
Chenell Basilio: Welcome back to the Growth In Reverse podcast. I'm Chenell.
Dylan Redekop: And I'm Dylan.
Chenell Basilio: we're gonna just talk through some things we've been seeing in the space today. 'cause we've found some interesting ones, whether it's someone doing something cool with their newsletter or different news about the newsletter space.
So we thought it'd be fun to jump on and talk through some of the top of mind things that we've been seeing.
Dylan Redekop: Yeah. If nothing more, this episode hopefully will serve as inspiration or open your eyes to some new opportunities for . What newsletter creators are doing, we'll talk about one story that is very lucrative that you could just write a newsletter and the next thing you know, become the editor in chief at a major global media company. Stuff like that. So
yeah, super Simple.
stuff. I'm excited to talk about some of these ideas because I think there's been some some really interesting happenings in the newsletter space that that we talk a lot about newsletters in this podcast. We don't talk about a lot of like day-to-day stuff that's happening, so I think this will be
fun.
Chenell Basilio: it will be fun. I'm excited about it. Do you wanna start with the [00:01:00] $150,000 one?
Dylan Redekop: You mean $150 million? One
Chenell Basilio: $50 million, couple zeros missing. It's fine.
Dylan Redekop: 150,000 would still be solid for, the average newsletter
operator. But no, this is different.
Chenell Basilio: Yeah. So Barry Weiss who writes the Free Press newsletter, actually got acquired by Paramount Skydance, which is like. CBS news. Essentially, they're the same organization, parent company of CBS news. And so not only did this turn into an acquihire of sorts where she's coming in to fill a role, but she's also going to be the editor in chief of CBS news, just from a.
Writing a newsletter, a very good newsletter, and she's been doing this a while. Very accomplished journalist. But clearly they see an opportunity here and I think it's fascinating that a Substack newsletter got acquired for $150 million.
Dylan Redekop: Do you hear that Substack people, you should be writing newsletters because you could be acquired by uh, CBS. No, I I'm joking but Barry Weiss, like you said she's had a good career [00:02:00] in journalism, a very successful career. She was at New York Times for a while. She left, you were telling me she left in 2020 to go out on her own and start, she started a substack, a newsletter renting for herself there. And then now she's been roped back in when CBS decided to throw $150 million check and maybe even more the opportunity to become their editor in chief of their news desk.
Chenell Basilio: Wild. That's just crazy amounts of money.
Dylan Redekop: It is.
It is.
Chenell Basilio: Especially considering Substack is a free platform for the most part, unless you're, obviously if you have paid, I don't even know if she had paid subscriptions. This is I probably should
have looked this up before we
Dylan Redekop: I would assume she did.
Chenell Basilio: Yeah, so pretty crazy that you can, create something of so much value based on just newsletter.
And obviously she has a, she's in the political news space, which makes sense. Getting acquired by CBS News. But yeah, it's pretty pretty
wild. I.
Dylan Redekop: So what's the implication for [00:03:00] Substack as a business? Because Barry Weiss could have potentially been one of their biggest revenue drivers for them since they take 10% of subscriptions. So i'd be curious to see how this works. My guess is CBS is not gonna go ahead and keep paying Substack, 10% revenue when they could just host this if she keeps writing the newsletter.
Host the newsletter on their own platform.
Chenell Basilio: I'm not sure. This is pretty crazy actually,
Dylan Redekop: Yeah I'd be curious to see
the fallout.
Chenell Basilio: I look, she has, she's already switched off of Substack.
Dylan Redekop: Yeah, there you go. So bye-bye Substack. You win some, you lose some.
Chenell Basilio: That is pretty crazy though to think about. And it has to be one of those things that Substack has, hopefully built into their business plan of okay, so we have these large creators. What happens when they bounce? You gotta keep filling that leaky bucket in a
way,
Dylan Redekop: Yep. There's nothing. Nothing's guaranteed.
Chenell Basilio: It's interesting like over time she's had hundreds of thousands, if not millions of subscribers through her newsletter. [00:04:00] So I'm sure those people have now seen Substack subscribe to other ones. So they probably are sticky in a way. Most of them, or a good chunk of them are, I'm sure.
But this is just, I'm just, it's $150 million for a newsletter is pretty
wild.
Dylan Redekop: Yeah. So what's a big takeaway here for, our listeners, for people? We're sharing a news item because this is definitely a newsletter related and media related, but
What should be a takeaway here for somebody who's writing a newsletter?
Chenell Basilio: You never know who's reading.
Dylan Redekop: Yeah.
Chenell Basilio: That's my biggest takeaway is you never know who's on the other side and watching what you're doing. If you put in the work day in, day out for 5, 10, 15 plus years of however long her career has been, but with Substack specifically, it's been five years. It's just pretty, pretty insane that you just don't know what could come from putting yourself out there, enhancing your skills, getting better at this kind of craft, and, obviously 99.999% of us will never get acquired, nor do we want to necessarily. [00:05:00] However it's pretty interesting that this is an opportunity for some
folks.
Dylan Redekop: Yeah, I think what my takeaway is that this is a real good opportunity. Basically where you can create your own portfolio if you want some kind of future opportunity like this, you can work backwards to, if I wanted to be acquired by X company or if I wanted to be acqui-hired, like Barry Weiss was, I think you said like she was basically acqui-hired.
They bought her newsletter but also brought her on to run their, to become the editor in chief. You could potentially. Look at that model and be like, okay, if I wanted to work at X company, then maybe I should write a newsletter that is something they would be interested in that that would show that I am capable of running a certain role or having experience in a certain industry and kinda work backwards from there.
So I think that's, this is just proof that like you can, I know Barry Weiss was very well known before she started even her substack and. Very few if any of us have that kind of cachet with our name. However, like I said, if you're [00:06:00] good at what you do and you publish and you stick with this consistency there is opportunity to build, to create your own portfolio and create your own opportunities with something free like Substack.
Chenell Basilio: I saw this even in my own career, like I got hired at an agency because they saw that I was trying to blog and learn SEO on my own without having a job necessarily around it. So even on a super small scale like this could absolutely help you get a job or some role that you're looking to walk into in a future part of your
career.
Dylan Redekop: Absolutely. I'm on a podcast talking about newsletters and I. Only, I think we are chatting because I started writing a newsletter and then you started writing a newsletter as well. And then, here we are years later whereas I used to be in the, kinda the corporate marketing space and this is more fun.
And I like, I like this a lot more. So just another example of how you can back into these sorts of things. When you write. And you stay, I know it sounds cliche, but you stay consistent. Keep showing up publicly and putting some [00:07:00] experience behind your name.
Chenell Basilio: Totally. All right, let's get into a more fun one. I found this actually this morning, but the Assist, which is a newsletter helping like women in career, like just business, women in business, I guess you could say they've built a decent size newsletter. I think there are over a hundred thousand subscribers at this point.
But they actually launched something. They call Workle, which is like a spin on wordle. It's like the same game, but with a different name and you
Dylan Redekop: I love
Chenell Basilio: go to their website to play. And I just, I think this is fun. This is a cool, interesting way to get people, hooked on your brand and your newsletter.
We see like obviously New York Times has been doing this kind of thing for a while. And we were talking about how they have a whole app just on the game, side of thing, side of things. It's pretty interesting to see another smaller newsletter do the same thing.
Dylan Redekop: Yes. And I think I'm loading Workle right now, which is like slowing down my computer because
Chenell Basilio: pretty slow.
Dylan Redekop: everything's glitching [00:08:00] out, so I'm gonna leave it now on my space. So they might need to work on that aspect of it. But, no I love games and we've talked about this a little bit before subscribing to the New York Times most.
Yeah, sure. The news articles are great, but really mostly for, the crossword puzzles and Wordle and all the other games that they have, and. I think there's a huge opportunity to leverage this. Yes, games aren't easy to necessarily create, but I even think of LinkedIn and LinkedIn started doing games a year and a bit ago, and at first I rolled my eyes at it.
Even
You didn't know this,
Chenell Basilio: No.
Dylan Redekop: have you not played any of the LinkedIn games?
Oh, I need to nudge you. They have like a. They've got like a.
feature to nudge people. So I am in, you can only play them in the LinkedIn app on your phone, or you can play them on online as well, on your desktop browser. But I've been playing several of these games for over a year, and they've got the streak built into it.
So they've incentivize you to keep playing every day. Now they've built in a leaderboard, which is [00:09:00] actually probably the most interesting thing they've done. 'cause before you could see oh, you're the top 50% fastest to finish this puzzle of your followers or of people in your connection of your connections.
It is I was like, oh, that's cool. But who's first though? Who am I? How high up am I? And just this week they launched the leaderboard where you can actually see. Other people's times and how fast they completed these puzzles. So that's to me, that's made it that much more interesting.
Competitive, and I'm a competitive person, so I'm like, oh man, I gotta beat, I gotta beat Terri. Terri in our community she's on these puzzles all the time as well. I'm like, I gotta beat Terri and I gotta beat so I just think there's, I don't know how you could necessarily do that with.
Newsletters, but there's probably a way that you could incorporate some kind of fun in entertainment and competition even with your readers, getting them to always check your newsletter if not for the great content, but also for something fun like this.
Chenell Basilio: Especially with all the AI tools out now, I'm sure there's a way to build like a basic game that you could just throw up and see what [00:10:00] happens. And I love that the assist just yes, it's a little slow, but it's it's an exercise and like just get the thing out and see what happens.
Perfect it later. And so I love that they're doing that in action. So Good on that team there.
Dylan Redekop: Yeah, I agree.
I agree. Keep it simple to start. Wordle is like the most basic, simple idea for a game ever. And
the guy who built it sold it to New York Times for what, one and a half million or 4 million or something like that. You never know what can happen with things like this.
Chenell Basilio: Probably kicking himself
now.
Dylan Redekop: It probably a little bit. He's man,
Barry, Wes got one 50 million. I only got four.
Chenell Basilio: No, but like the amount of money that New York Times has made off Wordle alone is probably
close, close to a billion, if not more.
Dylan Redekop: not insignificant.
Chenell Basilio: Yes.
we'll say
Dylan Redekop: Yes.
Chenell Basilio: Yeah. So I thought that was fun. Is. Especially considering our podcast episode recently about getting more engagement on your newsletter.
I think that's an interesting addition to that.
Dylan Redekop: Yeah. And it doesn't have to be like a
puzzle either. It could be like we mentioned, Toby Howell who had the button in his newsletter where you had to [00:11:00] guess how many times someone was gonna click the button and encourage people to click a button, reply to his newsletter, and open the next week's newsletter to see if they were one of the winners.
So there's other ways you can do this too. It doesn't just have to be some. Somewhat fancy game. Just be creative.
Use AI as a, maybe like an idea brainstorming, partner with you and see where it takes you.
Chenell Basilio: On the engagement side of things, I was actually scrolling through. I'm subscribed to like. Probably over a thousand newsletters at this point. In my, I have a separate email address for it,
but so.
I, yeah, it's pretty wild. So I just go through there sometimes and I'm like let's see what's going on.
And the Dink, which is a pickleball newsletter, I actually wrote a deep dive on them in the past. We'll link to that in the show notes too, if you wanna check that out. But they. They used to have this referral program that I loved and I wrote this deep dive, I think it was in 2023, so it's been a couple years now since that.
And happy to see they're still using the same
referral program. I will share a screenshot of that [00:12:00] here. But the dink essentially partners with some big brands in the pickleball space. So there are, paddle brands or people that put out specific types of shoes for pickle ballers or, you have a shirt company or something pickleball balls.
So let me just pull up the actual link. So of course the first one's a sticker. If you refer 25 people, I think you get like a gift card to Selkirk, which is like a big name in that
sport. If you hit 50, if you hit 50, you get the shoes.
75 is like the actual paddle. And so what they do is. If you hit the certain milestone, they're gonna have to share your information with that company so that the company can send you the thing, right? So that company is then getting customers that are engaged and obviously like pickleball. And so I think that's how they're navigating these partnerships.
It's like the Dink isn't necessarily paying for these gifts. Maybe they are splitting the costs. I'm not sure how that works on the backend. But they are actually partnering with these brands to give them [00:13:00] customers, which I think is super
cool.
Dylan Redekop: Yeah, I like that, that it's really smart. I always thought this was a great, this was a great referral program, a great referral strategy, and there are a lot of really not so great referral programs and strategies, but this one really stands out as something that. You can replicate, especially if you're working in a space that has a lot of physical merch swag or just like gear that you could, if you were in like, I dunno, the hiking space or the outdoor space or the gardening space, like you, could you think of just about anything, any kind of hobby if you were in a newsletter in that kind of space?
I'm sure you could find partners who would be willing to either share the cost or. Work out some kind of deal where you're promoting your referral program that includes their products.
Chenell Basilio: So I'm actually thinking they,
they probably don't, they probably don't actually split the cost. I bet. Because every email. That the Dink sends out then has these brands in it. So they probably are just like, here's [00:14:00] free promotion. So every time someone opens this email, they're seeing Franklin Paddle Selkirk pickleball stickers from the Dink, which is like they actually have to pay for those pickleball shoes.
So I think it's just interesting too. It's a good brand play. Onyx is another one. So it's just like one of those things that if you're in the pickleball space, you probably know these brands already, but you're seeing them promoted every time you open an issue of the Dink. And so I think the brands probably just love that exposure.
Dylan Redekop: Do we mention this as a pickleball newsletter? Yeah.
Chenell Basilio: How fast Can you
say pickleball?
Dylan Redekop: Yeah. I wonder how many, when you did the deep dive, how many subscribers was ,
Chenell Basilio: you're reaching here. Lemme see.
Dylan Redekop: Thomas at from the
Chenell Basilio: Okay.
Dylan Redekop: 50 ish?
Chenell Basilio: They had a newsletter of 150,000 subscribers in the fall.
Oh wait. Yeah, they started it in the fall of 2020. They had 150,000 subscribers, and that was in [00:15:00] 2023. July of 2023.
Dylan Redekop: So over two years ago,
Chenell Basilio: And they had, they now have podcasts, they have YouTube channels. They actually have a full van that goes to pickleball events to like record.
Yeah, it's awesome. And this guy Thomas Shields, who actually started the newsletter that just started it and he is I'm gonna figure this out. Lemme try this cool little journey and see what happens.
Dylan Redekop: And he was a pickleball enthusiast.
Chenell Basilio: He was, he was like, Hey, pickleball is growing. I think there needs to be a media company around this. The ones that are doing it now are like old school and they're just like very I dunno.
ESPN style, where at the time it was more boring and now he was like, I wanna bring a new fresh, like flare to this
sport.
Dylan Redekop: It says, join hundreds of thousands of pickle ballers to read. So he's probably over 200, I would imagine, over 200,000 subscribers now.
So that's an easier sell to partners. In terms of an audience size, it'd be a little bit harder if you're a smaller newsletter, but, you have some proof if you have [00:16:00] proof of concept or if you're growing quickly, there is definitely an opportunity to reach out
Chenell Basilio: So I don't think it would be that much harder because the brand only has to pay if people actually are referring folks. And I don't know. I feel like if you have a smaller newsletter, you're not gonna have as many people reaching that milestone. So would it really cost them more?
They're still getting in front of a bunch of folks. As you grow the newsletter, obviously you're going to have more people, but they're also getting more eyeballs, so it's like a win-win on both
ends,
Dylan Redekop: I guess if you're trying to get x amount of dollars for this, for, from an an ad perspective or a sponsorship perspective, that's where it could
be, that's where I'm like, oh yeah, Thomas could be like, okay, like you're gonna be, permanently in every edition of our newsletter, it's gonna be X amount of dollars per quarter or per year, whatever that might be. They'd be more likely to agree to it because of the size of his newsletter.
Chenell Basilio: Yeah. But if you're just doing it for free and you're like, Hey, I just wanna have a really
badass referral program.
Dylan Redekop: Yeah,
Chenell Basilio: don't think they're gonna be upset about it at [00:17:00] all.
Dylan Redekop: No, exactly. Exactly. Cool. Okay. Where should we go
Chenell Basilio: right, what's next?
Dylan Redekop: Should we talk about Matt McGarry's recent edition of his newsletter? Yeah.
Chenell Basilio: Yeah, go for it. I haven't really seen this one
yet, so go for it.
Dylan Redekop: Okay, I'm sure a lot of people listening are very familiar with Matt McGarry. And may have already read this from him but maybe not. So he just released an edition of his newsletter and he calls the Future Media is the big three media strategy.
And he says YouTube is the new tv, podcasts are the new RA radio and newsletters are the new magazines and newspapers. And so essentially he says, so those are the big three platforms that basically any media type business should be focusing on. And everything else is either a distraction or a way to drive audiences to the big three.
Chenell Basilio: This kind of reminds me of Jay Clouse's, discovery platforms versus owned audiences where like discovery is, like LinkedIn and YouTube is included in this too. Twitter, Instagram, all of those. And then your owned [00:18:00] audiences are like newsletters.
Actually podcasts, eh, newsletters are like the main one. Communities as well, and podcasts are lumped in there as well. But yeah, this kind of reminds me of that.
Dylan Redekop: He goes on to share a few points. And I'll just sum them up really quickly. If you're not exceptional, at least one of these channels, so you know, the key is to get really good at one of them, especially. But if you're not exceptional, at least one of these channels, it's impossible to build a content business. So you have to really become very good at publishing newsletters and writing content that people want to read. He says everything else is a distraction or a way to drive audiences to the big three, which I already mentioned. And then he's basically saying, specialize in one of the three to start. And then he says also, this I think is important. If you specialize in newsletters or podcasts, you need a discovery channel. And that's what you were just talking about. So that's where you talk about video platforms or social media platforms that can help people discover you, but then also. When they discover you, you want to drive them [00:19:00] to your newsletter or your podcast?
Chenell Basilio: Yeah, I think if we all had our choice, none of us would be on social media, but podcasts and newsletters are inherently hard to grow. So you need something like that. YouTube is a great platform, I think for this, especially nowadays with like video podcasts and that kind of thing. But you have to be on camera or you have to be able to create a video necessarily.
Whereas with LinkedIn and Twitter and those, it's more written which newsletter folks and authors and writers love because that's their native output from their brain is written content. So that makes sense. But I think. I think there is a big wedge here for YouTube to become like the bigger platform.
And you can even see that like Matt McGarry stopped doing well, quote unquote stopped doing his podcast and now he's doing more YouTube content. But there's still some stuff going up on the podcast feed, so it's tBD of what's happening there. But
Dylan Redekop: semantics in my opinion. Like you're doing a podcast,
doing YouTube channel, you're publishing the audio. Like to me that's a bit semantics. But the point is like [00:20:00] he's going away from audio only I think. Content and sticking with video first content. And that actually brings your point brings to the, brings up his fifth point, which is fear of video is stunting your growth.
And essentially he's saying like everybody's gonna eventually need to be able to do video. You don't have to do it, but if you don't expect to grow slowly or not at all. And he says, this probably isn't what you wanna hear. But he talks to great writers all the time who are too scared at making videos. And you basically have to get over it. 'cause it's gonna be if you wanna take your content to the next level and get in front of more people, that's the way you are gonna have to go.
Chenell Basilio: I would say probably for 75% of people, yeah, that's probably accurate. I think if you have brand recognition, you have A type of content that you could put out that is so good that people will share it without needing video. I think that's a wedge in the market too. You don't have to do it, but for most people, I think he's right.
Yeah. I think video is a and even [00:21:00] for those folks who don't need to do it, they would probably grow faster if they did it. However, there is also something to be said about spending 90% of your time on just the one thing.
Dylan Redekop: Until you get very good at it.
Chenell Basilio: Yeah, 1440 is also launching a podcast too now.
1440 is a daily news newsletter. And they have four plus million subscribers, but yeah, they're also launching a podcast, so that's like a, another point of proof for this strategy that it's clearly people are thinking about this.
Dylan Redekop: Not just a newsletter. Morning Brew, that's, they did the same thing. They started off as just Morning Brew and then they branched off to Marketing Brew and Tech Brew. And then they're like, okay, we're gonna have podcasts as well for these. And then now they're like, now they got the Morning Brew Daily, which is like a TV show sort of thing.
And they got purchased by Business Insider. So all this stuff can compound and grow into something bigger and bigger. And it usually, it doesn't just stick with written content, it grows into other things.
Chenell Basilio: Interesting though. I think I, I feel like we should talk more about this as like video podcasts versus [00:22:00] YouTube native channels. It's I don't know. It's it's such a different medium.
I don't know.
Dylan Redekop: Yeah, because a.
Chenell Basilio: this all the time,
Dylan Redekop: A YouTube podcast is not a Mr. Beast channel. Do you know
Chenell Basilio: right? Yeah.
Dylan Redekop: there's, pure entertainment, YouTube, pure entertainment, there's YouTube that's like more infotainment. Then there's YouTube that's like educational. There's all sorts of things, right? So there's different types of YouTube content that you can create. And I'm not an expert on it and I don't probably know enough about this to really go in depth on it right now. But yeah, there's definitely a. A difference between a YouTube podcast, a podcast, and like a U successful YouTube channel.
Chenell Basilio: I think YouTube's gonna be so big. It already is, but I think it's gonna get even more and more important and culturally relevant over the next three years.
Dylan Redekop: If you think about it, like the old way, the only way you could be in front of these huge audiences was if you were able to get onto like a TV [00:23:00] show or pitch, pitch your, you know, be the next be the next Oprah, or it was, there were so many barriers to entry. Right now.
Everything has basically like content. Is democratized, access to audiences is democratized. It's all it's all accessible. You just need to be really good at it to stand out and so anybody can up, I keep telling my kids are like, oh, you're on YouTube, dad, that's crazy. And I'm like, you could be like, I'm not gonna let you, but you could be on YouTube.
Like you just have to literally record a video and hit upload and you're on YouTube. It's, the difference is obviously the people who are winning, quote unquote at YouTube are doing it really well, and they have figured out, the secret sauce, the recipe of what people wanna watch. And it's not always the same thing.
Different audiences want different things, but they figured it out. And you don't have to you don't have to pitch your show or your pilot to a network and try to get a season, like that used to be the old way of doing things. And now. The barriers to entry have become a lot lower at least for [00:24:00] getting there.
Chenell Basilio: Yeah, it's it's actually bringing this full circle back to the Barry Weiss thing of she. It's almost flipping, like you used to think of like CBS news as or just the typical five big five, big three news channels as like the place to go to find out what's happening. And now I'd say more people are actually looking at YouTube creators, newsletters, those kinds of things as more trustworthy.
And so the big. News organizations are seeing that taking notice and being like, we need to pull in these top creators so that we get that mind share back and that market share.
Dylan Redekop: The trust too.
Chenell Basilio: full circle. Yeah.
Dylan Redekop: Yeah. No, it, you're right. We could go on and give examples of various different, political voices on both sides of the political or the United States political spectrum. But I think the point is that I think the access to these audiences, like I said, has been democratized, but it's still very hard to build a large audience. And.
It helps [00:25:00] when you worked for New York Times and then went on your own to write your own substack, so
Chenell Basilio: You got the job there 'cause you wrote insanely valuable
Dylan Redekop: No, exactly.
Chenell Basilio: and a research process that was like pretty wild.
So it
Dylan Redekop: yeah. No, I'm not.
Chenell Basilio: yeah.
Dylan Redekop: It all comes back to insanely valuable content. Yeah. I'm not discrediting Barry Weiss being good at what she does. For
Chenell Basilio: No, but I hear that all the time. People always say that. They're like they had this leg up because of, and I'm like, okay, but no, stop. 'cause, go back to the beginning. She was probably working 15, 16 hour days, figuring this out in the beginning, fi got her leg in the door somewhere and went from there.
And so you don't see all those hard nights and the late nights, the hard work that she did, but. It's there. I guarantee it's there and she's still putting out insanely valuable content that people are eating up. Obviously, I was looking, I think 1.5 million subscribers,
Yeah,
Dylan Redekop: That ain't nothing.
Chenell Basilio: ain't nothing. I don't want 1.5 million subscribers, but some people do.
Dylan Redekop: no. 1.5 million [00:26:00] subscribers means like a percentage of 1.5 million subscribers as like haters and trolls. So no thanks.
Chenell Basilio: Can you imagine all the replies they get?
Dylan Redekop: No, I don't want to, you gotta ignore that stuff.
Chenell Basilio: That's it for this episode. Thanks for listening to the Growth in Reverse podcast and hanging out with us . Make sure you check out the Growth Vault. We talk about things like the The Dink's Referral Program some other fun tactics that we're finding through just.
Being on the internet all the time, all day, every day. And you can find some more growth and optimization tactics that some of the top creators are using. I update that thing pretty regularly, so I'm excited to have you in there. You can actually use the code GIR pod for a 15% discount on your first year of the growth vault.
So get a little bonus there for you and . We'll keep updating that as we find more fun tips and tactics people are using.
Dylan Redekop: Yeah, and hang out with us online as well. We are very online as as the kids say. Check us out on LinkedIn. [00:27:00] Chenell and I have both been a little bit more active on Substack, I guess you could say, in the last 30 days or so. And yeah we'd love to hear your comments and chat with you about all things newsletters there too.
Chenell Basilio: Yes.
Awesome. Cool.
Dylan Redekop: Till next time.
