AUDIO - CC Review V1

Dylan Redekop: [00:00:00] We are one week removed from

Chenell Basilio: craft and commerce in Boise. And it sounds like you would do it again.

Dylan Redekop: Yes. Yeah. Okay. If they were interesting on the internet, they were actually more interesting in person.

Chenell Basilio: That is the game. Make insanely valuable content, show up and make relationships and like you have a good business.

The word authentic

Dylan Redekop: got thrown around like, like nobody's business. It was everywhere.

Chenell Basilio: Everyone has these AI tools now and it's like you can crank out like 30 times the amount of content. But at the end of the day, like should you,

Dylan Redekop: I would have pretty massive FOMO if I wasn't able to make it out next time.

Chenell Basilio: Alright, so we are back in our little home studios. I'm in the basement, Dylan's and his plant sanctuary. And uh, we wanted to, we wanted to chat about craft and commerce in Boise. And just kind of talk through what we learned, uh, the takeaways we had, and just some good reminders for Yeah, next steps and what we're looking to do.

So, [00:01:00] um, excited to do this one. We're

Dylan Redekop: for sure, we are one week removed from, I guess the, kinda the first keynote, um, morning, right last Thursday from when we're recording this. Once this is released, we'll be about two weeks out. But I'm trying to, I've, I've been assembling my thoughts a little bit and there was just like so much goodness.

And it was also just like. All of this information just like packed into like two, basically two days. Um, and getting all of that onto paper or outta my mind onto paper and not well paper screens and um, now in front of you is gonna be interesting. So I think there were a lot of great takeaways, and I'm excited to kind of talk with you about things that you found the most interesting and the things that our listeners and people who are writing newsletters could get the most from.

Chenell Basilio: Yeah, I'm excited about this one. Um, and so for context, I went to Jay's. LA offline event, he called it, uh, with his lab. Right. So I was there from Sunday to Saturday, so it was like the longest week ever. But such a good week. Uh, I think there were a lot of upset [00:02:00] spouses amongst like, all of our group. 'cause everyone was like, yeah, my spouse is with the kids for a whole week.

And, you know, it's just funny. Mm-hmm. But, um mm-hmm. It, it was good stuff. It was like really quality creator time and I love that. Um, yeah. So yeah, I'm excited to be back, but. Do miss it.

Dylan Redekop: Yeah. Boise's a, a gem, like, it's like this little gem in the middle of like Idaho and like a desert basically. And

Chenell Basilio: yeah,

Dylan Redekop: you're flying over and it's like desert, desert, desert.

And all of a sudden it's like this lush green, like little sprawling city and it's really cool. So first off, like location wise. Pretty amazing. Um, for people who don't know, they choose Boise because Nathan Berry is basically from Boise. Mm-hmm. I believe. And Kit kind of was founded there and has grown there.

And there's a few people, um, who still live there, who are part of the team. So despite being a remote company, that's where they always have. They always have the conference.

Chenell Basilio: Yes. And it's, it's so frustrating 'cause I would say 90% of the visitors have to take at least two flights. Some people took like four [00:03:00] flights, which is just insane.

I don't know that I would do it. There are not many direct flights to Boise unless you're from like Dallas, San Francisco or Colorado LA Yeah, somewhere on like the west. Um, yeah, so it's definitely a, a trip to get there, which I think weeds out a lot of people, which might. Be good. Talking about friction, uh,

Dylan Redekop: Uhhuh uhhuh friction

Chenell Basilio: to get to the conference is, uh, potentially something that has kept the attendee quality high

Dylan Redekop: for sure.

And the opportunity to get there a little bit easier because some people are just like, man, it's not worth the trip. The track, yeah. For you and I, it was, I think two flights each, right? Mm-hmm. Like each. Mm-hmm. I had to have a layover. I was nice and quick. Vancouver to Seattle. Seattle too. Boise, you were, I think you did Dallas and then Dallas into Philly.

To Dallas and

Chenell Basilio: Dallas. Boise, yep. Yeah,

Dylan Redekop: so it was great. Once we got there, I was again blown away by the town. But let's not talk too much about the town. Let's get into like right into the details of the conference. So what do you think the main theme of the conference was this year?

Chenell Basilio: There were a couple. I think the main theme, the one that I can't get [00:04:00] outta my head in this very moment, is like in real life connection.

It was just so freaking powerful. Um, like I'm, I'm specifically thinking about like, we went on a hike with mm-hmm. Chad Carson, Brian Aldi and Becky Pearson Davidson. Mm-hmm. And it was just like us five and it was such like, such a good hike. It was like a two and a half hour. Like just, we're talking with other people who understand the weird things that happen in our lives.

Yeah. And I was just like, this is so cool. And like Brian even messaged me afterwards and he was like, I love that. And I was like, can I just get your number so we can just like talk while we're walking dogs? Mm-hmm. At some point. 'cause I think there's just like, how can we take that and turn it into like a virtual thing that we could do more often?

Because that hike was just like so fun. Like, I don't know how else to explain it aside from fun.

Dylan Redekop: It really was. There's like, I think that's, that's my takeaway too, is like the information we got at the conference was really good, really, and pretty valuable. But the in-person connection and the experiences like the hike and um, the dinners that we attended, um, whether casual or organized, [00:05:00] those were like the real value was that making those connections, um, those friendships, that was, that was just so huge.

So I'm fully aligned with the. In person connection thing. The messaging from the, the actual conference itself is they talk about connecting and then they're talking more about connecting like human to human. So that was a big theme. Um, the word authentic got thrown around like, like nobody's business.

It was everywhere. It was kind of the buzzword of the, the conference is like being authentic in a world that's going more and more towards ai.

Chenell Basilio: Yeah, totally. And this was your first. Creator conference, right.

Dylan Redekop: First, yeah, first conference outside of like the marketing, corporate marketing world. And I didn't go to too many even with that.

So yeah, this is my first like conference in, in many, many times. Many years. First creator conference for sure.

Chenell Basilio: And it sounds like you would do it again?

Dylan Redekop: Yes. Yeah. Okay. I would have, um, I would have pretty massive FOMO if I wasn't able to make it out next time. Yeah. And um, and it's not even just the fomo, it's just like.[00:06:00]

It was just so valuable in the experience and the connecting meeting you for the first time. Yeah, in person. And for the people who have not met Chenell in real life, her hair is actually a lot darker than it shows up on videos,

Chenell Basilio: which totally really awful. I think it's the lights above my head. It's so funny.

It totally is.

Dylan Redekop: It brings out like that. Chestnut sort of color in your, in your hair, which is, which is hilarious. Um, which I did not realize. So it was great to actually meet people like, you know, people I've worked with for like a year plus, or known for year plus at least, um, in person and meet like my creator heroes.

I posteds on LinkedIn about like some of the heroes, quote unquote. I met like Nathan Barry and Tom Frank and Jay Klaus and Justin Moore. Um, obviously you like just these people who have been in my ethos. My online ethos for a long time that I got to actually like shake hands with and have a, have a, just like a normal conversation with, which was like surreal and awesome.

Chenell Basilio: Yeah. It's always so much fun to like just get to hang out with people. You only ever do this with like Zoom or virtual calls and I'm like, oh, this is so cool. And it's fun to like see how [00:07:00] people are generally the same like,

Dylan Redekop: yeah,

Chenell Basilio: online and offline, which is like awesome. I'm like, oh, you just like fall right into it.

Like when we met I was like, uh, this might be weird, but then we were just like. Talking like we are now. It was, it was great. Yeah. Yeah. It felt

Dylan Redekop: like just like catching up with an old friend, which was, yeah. Which was, I think that's a pretty big compliment to how our dynamic of how, how we've been working together.

And then people, like even Brian Aldi, who you mentioned was on the hike. My only interaction with him previously was I think I was working at Sparkle and I was doing customer support and he was struggling with something in that end. And so, um, you know, obviously frustrated as a customer who. Was having a, a tech problem.

And so my impression of Brian was like, you know, somebody who was maybe a frustrated person just from that perspective, right? And meeting him in person was completely the opposite. He was so down to earth, he was like charismatic, but like not a fake way. He was just like fun, kind. Um, he. Like chatty. It was, it was awesome.

So it was, it completely, you know, flipped my impression of him in a positive way. Not that I thought badly of him otherwise, but it was [00:08:00] just a whole other angle that I really appreciated. And I think I got that vibe with just about everybody. If they were interesting in on the internet, I. They were actually more interesting in person.

Chenell Basilio: Yeah. I think there's some things that get filtered out on the internet that don't get filtered out in real life, which is uh, just

Dylan Redekop: a little bit, yeah, just a little bit.

Chenell Basilio: Which is what makes everybody human, right. It's just like we totally, I feel like, so sometimes we cut out or edit out the parts that are just, you know, we're like, oh, that's a little weird, but it's like, no, that's what makes you, you.

And so it's just mm-hmm. It's a good reminder to like. Not edit out as much stuff. Um, yeah.

Dylan Redekop: Yeah, it really is. Um, okay. So let's get into some other, some of our main takeaways. So do you wanna start or shall I?

Chenell Basilio: Yeah, I mean, I guess on the topic of ai, I would say, like you said, that was thrown on around all the time.

Authentic was thrown around. And then also like this sense of impending burnout. Like everyone has these AI tools now and it's like you can crank out like 30 times the amount of content. At [00:09:00] the end of the day, like, should you, like, is that what you want? Mm-hmm. And so it's just like a good reminder of like, just because these tools can make your output faster and more like, and increase the output, it's like, is that really the next step you wanna take?

And so it was a good, like, I don't know. Reminder of just like, what, what can go wrong if you take these tools and use them to their fullest extent all of the time?

Dylan Redekop: I think there's a, a good balance that we need to take. Mm-hmm. And some people will take advantage of tools like ai, tools like Chachi, bt, and.

Sora creating videos and, and you name it, even Delphi, who is a sponsor of the conference, and they'll be able to like, you know, do the work of, you know, a hundred people, you know, and that's, that's okay if that's serving their business and serving their purpose. But I think there's, um, there's elements of the business that personally I would not wanna do that with.

Also like feeling like you always have to be cranking out new content and tons of content everywhere all the time. I just feel burnt out just thinking about it that way. So I think [00:10:00] having that balance is is really important.

Chenell Basilio: Yeah. And I kept hearing people being like, well, you know, once you have a higher quality bar, I'm like, insanely valuable content.

Like it just comes back. Mm-hmm. Every time I'm like, yes, this is, I was so happy hearing people say that. 'cause I'm like, that is. The game, like make insanely valuable content, show up and make relationships and like you have a good business that hypothetically if you do the right things could survive. So

Dylan Redekop: I think insanely valuable content should not be, um, conflated with insanely frequent content either.

Yes. Yeah. And that's what like AI can help us with is making insanely frequent content that isn't always a good thing. Right? Yeah. Um, I think even like Jay has talked, Jay Close, he's talked about leaning into like, I'm gonna publish something when I'm like. Really inspired and feeling it, and I feel like I have something to say as opposed to trying to just like play, keep up with the algorithm.

I think that it's really important to not, um, conflate the insanely valuable content that's actually helpful. Interesting. That's gonna help, that's gonna help people. Um. Achieve the goals that they're, you know, following you to achieve as [00:11:00] opposed to just like pumping stuff out every day, all the time just to serve the algorithm.

Chenell Basilio: And then there's other realms of this where like, you know, Nathan Berry was talking about how he was talking to, uh, Steven Bartlett's head of content, or I forget her role, but that he was like, oh, can you like look through? My LinkedIn content and he was like, she was like, yeah, sure. And he's like, yeah, I just posted this one.

And she looked at his profile and she was like, this was posted five days ago. Like that's not just posted. Like, what are you doing? Yeah. And he is like, oh yeah, like these top names who have these huge content teams like can put out daily content and do it well.

Dylan Redekop: Mm-hmm.

Chenell Basilio: Most of us probably can't.

Dylan Redekop: No. At least not yet.

Yeah. Um, and, and then it also basic, the question is do you want that? Right? Do you want to be doing that? And for some people, if, if your main business is eyeballs and attention, um, you know, the bigger the better, the more the better. Steven Bartlett's running a, well, I guess almost a, basically a YouTube channel now.

It started as like a podcast and di of a CEO for anybody who's not familiar and it's pretty big and they have a lot of sponsors and so they need to get as [00:12:00] many. Ears and eyes on their product as possible so they can keep selling, um, those impressions and paying his staff and so on. So yeah, I get where they're coming from in that regard, but we're not all serving, um, just the eyeballs and the, and the ear lobes.

We are also just serving, sometimes we're just serving people and, um, one sale for our coaching program or mastermind or community, that's all we need. And it doesn't have to be at the cost of. Publishing content all day, every day.

Chenell Basilio: Totally. Okay. I think I rambled on about this enough. So what was your, okay, next takeaway.

Dylan Redekop: Well, I kinda like, I just think about this in order of sort of the keynotes we saw. So the very first keynote is very apt for what he talked about was Clay, Hebert, Hebert, if you're, yeah, if you wanna butcher's last name, clay. Hey Bear. Um, he talked about introductions, which was very convenient being the very first keynote we, we heard.

And so, um, I can't remember exactly what that bias is, but that's one that stuck with me because it was the very first. Um, is that the peak end rule? I can't remember. Yeah. Either way. I think so. The first and the last

Chenell Basilio: thing are the most the things you remember. Yeah. The

Dylan Redekop: most memorable. [00:13:00] So he talked about introductions, and in that sense, he's like, most people absolutely suck at introducing themselves, especially when they're asked, what do you do?

So what do you do? What do you do? And he played a bunch of clips of people asking, what do you do? Um, and, and I think the, the thing that I took away from that was we second introductions when introducing ourselves and explaining what we do. We we're verbose. We don't really explain it well, and so, so on and so forth, but also.

On our landing pages, in our bios online, when we are make sending a DM or people DM us, we don't really have, um, we don't have that honed. And some people do, don't get me wrong. Some people are really good at it. But I think simplifying our introduction, uh, whether it's in person and somebody asking, what do you do?

Or somebody coming to our landing pages or our websites, there's a lot of room for improvement there. And so I thought how he talked about transforming your introduction into a very simple like. I help X with Y, for example, um, as one of his frameworks was like, really, like, yes, I like that. You can put that on a landing page.

You can [00:14:00] elaborate on it a bit, but like, just making it super plain and clear was, um, one of my big takeaways for, at least for his keynote.

Chenell Basilio: I. And I think more, more so than that because when somebody says like, oh, I help X with Y I'm like, yeah, I've heard that for decades at this point. But he also made it, he's like, you don't want your elevator pitch to be a story ender.

Like so that people fully understand it and then they're like, okay, cool, I don't wanna talk to you anymore. So he gave examples and I was really hoping my name came up on that screen 'cause he was going through some of the The speakers and workshop folks on there. Yeah. Um, and. It did come up and I was super pumped.

And he said, mine can be, I help creators grow in reverse. And like that makes no sense to anyone who doesn't know my content, but it opens this door for a story for them to be like, oh, tell me more. Mm-hmm. And so I thought that was like a really interesting, uh, segue into like how to get people excited about what you do.

Yeah.

Dylan Redekop: I, I agree. I think the leaving that element of like curiosity is, is pretty, is pretty important. Um. He, he [00:15:00] also referenced mine, which I wasn't expecting about roasting newsletters. So I don't think he really knows what I do, which is fair. I didn't have a great bio, but he said, you know, um, I, most people roast marshmallows.

I roast newsletters, kind of thing. And I was like, oh, that's kind of clever. Yeah. Um, and then that would lead someone to think like, what does that actually mean? So, um. So I thought that was fun and that was really interesting and he had a bunch of different frameworks and I really wish I had written them down, but those, those were kind of the, that was kind of the, the meat of what he was talking about.

I think people, again, they suck at intros and first impressions are pretty important, whether you're meeting somebody in person or they're coming to your landing page or sales page, or you're welcome email or whatever it is. Yeah, there's an opportunity to synthesize what you do. For who and how you do it.

Chenell Basilio: Totally. And I think me writing, I hope creators grow in reverse on a landing page, would never convert anyone. I think they'd all be like, yeah, I'm not signing up for this. But in a conversation like face to face, it makes total sense to like have something with a little. Mystery around it. Uh, but on a landing page.

Yeah, totally. You wanna make it [00:16:00] more concrete and understandable.

Dylan Redekop: Yeah, exactly. Okay. What was, uh, another takeaway from you?

Chenell Basilio: I don't know, just like another variation of like being in person. So at Jay's offline event, uh, he put us into like these small, random groups, like mm-hmm. We didn't get to pick where we sat.

He just sat us with people he thought would be good folks. So it was like six people. I think it was six and everyone went around and said like, talk through like a major issue you're thinking through in your business and like everyone had 18 minutes and you just talked about your thing and people would give you feedback or ask more questions.

And I just, I love things like that and I didn't realize how much I love it. Like the time aspect of it was just so fun to like. Everyone gets a certain amount of time, and honestly, hearing from other people helped me more than like them helping me with my problem. It was just, it's so good. Like I need to put myself in situations like that.

More

Dylan Redekop: like hearing from how other people were solving other people's problems in their business. Yeah. Is that what you, or like

Chenell Basilio: hearing the other problems that each of us were [00:17:00] going through? I was like. Yeah, like I kind of have that issue too, and like just hearing one little reframe of it, I'm like, oh, maybe it's either not as big of an issue or there's this simple fix that I could like implement tomorrow.

So I just really love like those small group mastermind type things, and those are not people that I normally sit around and talk to. So it was cool to have like. I don't know, it's almost like a random element to it. And like everybody immediately just throws away like baggage. Like nobody can be embarrassed, just talk about your thing.

Mm-hmm. We're all on the same level kind of thing. Yeah. So I really, really enjoyed

Dylan Redekop: that. That's cool. We did that a little bit too in the mastermind. Um, I guess the pre-conference mastermind, that kit kind of sets up. Yeah. So, um, is it select group of people? Uh, thanks to you. I was invited just 'cause we were doing the workshop.

That was the only reason we got a seat at the table there. There was some pretty heavy hitters in there like Pat Flynn and, um, to name, you know, just an example of somebody who's been uber successful who was there. Mm-hmm. So we talked about, again, we're sitting around tables of about six people or so, [00:18:00] and everybody got like 15 minutes to like, share their no posturing, you know, just totally like, just share a struggle they're dealing with.

And then everybody just went around and said. They didn't give them advice, but they're like, here, in my experience, how I handled a similar issue. And I thought that was like, again, very powerful. And it really like brought down, um, everybody's guard a little bit. 'cause people were just like willing to be vulnerable and listen.

Chenell Basilio: I know, I think that that second one was like, oh yeah, like. This is just solidifying my brain, like, I need to do this more. 'cause Yeah. I thankfully did get to sit with Pat Flynn and I was like, this is insane. Like for people who don't know, like I got into this world in 2013 because of Pat Flynn's podcast.

Like I found his podcast. Yes. And I was like, uh, like I did not know people made money with websites and I found his podcast. And then here I am, what, 12 years later? Mm-hmm. So it's just insane to like come full circle sitting at at a table with him. Yeah.

Dylan Redekop: Right. Having him give you advice on. Your Yeah. On your business.

Chenell Basilio: It was wild. So yeah, that was incredible. J'S and the [00:19:00] Kit pre mastermind thing was incredible. Mm-hmm. Um, highly recommend if you get a chance to do either of those, but yeah, it's something I'm thinking. I would love to incorporate something like this inside of Growth and reverse Pro. Eventually she's just gonna

Dylan Redekop: say, yeah, if you didn't, I was gonna mention that

Chenell Basilio: because it's just.

It was such, I think if I did nothing else at the conference, I would've been happy with just those two interactions. Like, wow. Yeah, I think it was, it would've been worth the flights and like the hotel and everything to like, mm-hmm. I don't know. It's just, it's a different level of learning and.

Connection. So I do wanna try and incorporate that somehow.

Dylan Redekop: And that's something you can't, AI can't really replace. At least not yet. I don't think. Um, yeah, you can do the clones and you can do this and that. Um, but I think just the same, that same person. No, it is not the same. It's not, yeah. Who wants to talk?

To a robot, like to solve like a tech issue. Sure. Or a customer support issue. Even then it's kind of annoying, but like yeah, in person when you want that feedback and you know, just like putting your heart on your sleeve and being like, this is what I'm struggling with. I think that's so powerful and [00:20:00] that's where the value of these conferences come in as well.

And the value of private communities can be, um. Huge. When you can get a group of people together who are all kind of, sort of in the same boat and are able to just like, help each other. Right. Just support. I fully agree with you on that. That's, that's massive.

Chenell Basilio: Yeah, it was huge. So I just keep coming back to that in my brain.

So if you wanna go to another one, let's do it.

Dylan Redekop: Okay. Sweet. I, I want to go to another one. Okay. And I want, and I want, he's like, stop talking about these

Chenell Basilio: Mastermind Chenell.

Dylan Redekop: Yeah. I, well, I, I, I'm in like, I'm, I'm game. I've been sold, so, okay. The other thing. One other takeaway that I had, and it kind of, it was based on one of the keynotes from, um, the ultra speaking guys, uh, the, the one half of ultra speaking named Tristan Di Montebello, who, um, I unfortunately didn't really meet until like the last.

Closing party. I kind of shook his hand and said how inspiring his speech was. Um, but I really wish I would've been able to chat with him bit more because he seemed like a really interesting guy. Those

Chenell Basilio: two

Dylan Redekop: are just like incredible humans. I know. And the first night we were there, Hey, Michael,

Chenell Basilio: Michael [00:21:00] Gendler, iss, the other one.

Yes.

Dylan Redekop: Yeah. Yes, Michael. So I had no idea who these guys were. Um, however, I had recently just signed up for ultra speaking and I do not know how it came into my ether. Um, but all of a sudden I was like getting emails and then I found out, oh. They're speaking at the conference. That actually might've been it.

I might've looked up the speaking list and saw Tristan Alger speaking and she's like, oh, maybe I'll check that out. Either way. We ended up at a speakeasy on Wednesday night, um, before the conference started with like this kind of random group of people. You knew them more than I did, but, um, it was just a really dark lit speakeasy, like traditional, like, like underground kind of a place.

You had to, like, you had to ring a number and then tell them who you were. Yeah. There was no like obvious

Chenell Basilio: door to get in.

Dylan Redekop: No. Yeah, no, we had to like go ask around how, how we could like get to this place. And so anyway, anyway, we get in there and Michael's one of the people who was kind enough, like I didn't really know anyone.

I was just kind of sitting there in the corner like with my drink, like going like this. And Michael, you know, he struck up a conversation with me and introduced himself and he was really kind and really like humble and, [00:22:00] um, I wouldn't have known that he was like the co-founder of this, you know, really bit successful and important business that he's running with Tristan.

And just trying to hear him over the crowd of people was hard, but we were like chatting a lot about. About what he does and he's, it was just like super down to earth and really nice and and humble guy. So if I wasn't already bought into the program, just meeting one of the people, especially who's behind it, sold me on it.

But what I wanted to say was he, Tristan talks a lot about speaking and public speaking, mastering kind of the art of it. But I think. What is reflected back is like calming that internal storm 'cause people can't see inside you and inside your head and how you're feeling, but you can present how you're feeling, um, by things you do and say.

And so their whole thing is about kind of like not leaking the, what you're feeling inside outward. Right? For me, somebody who's like terrified of public speaking, I'm just like, I look up to you that. You, you don't love doing it either, but you've done it a number of times and I'm just like, I aspire to do that.

I wanna do this someday. It's like it, it's like going skydiving. Something that would like absolutely terrify me [00:23:00] that I just like feel like I have to do before I die. So I really appreciated Tristan's talk because it was both inspiring and it was like, I guess it was comforting to know that like people who do this all the time still are like scared to death to do it, but they've found these ways to kind of like hack the fear and the nerves and I guess.

Pulling this all full circle to like newsletters is something else. Uh, when we interviewed a DHD Jesse was talking about was when he was trying to write like an expert and like he knew everything. He kinda lost his voice a little bit and potentially kind of started losing interest from readers. But when he just in incorporated, um, more of his personality and more of kind of just his, um, I don't know, like, like learner's kind of perspective.

Just like, here's what my experiences is, my experience is, and like my authentic, using that word again, human self. It just felt more natural and came with more ease. And so I feel like a merger of like what Tristan taught us, what Jesse mentioned, just like, you know, the confidence in your communication is important, but if you're like pretending to be an expert when you're [00:24:00] not, then that's gonna come through.

And so it's just like, how can you, I. Write with confidence. Um, maybe you're an expert in writing with, you know, that expert level confidence or expert knowledge, I should say, works for you and you have confidence in that. But maybe you're somebody like me who feels like imposter syndrome and when I'm talking about all these things, and so it's more, I might have to, to have the confidence, I might have to approach it for more of an angle of somebody who's learning, like, learn with me.

Or, um, yeah, why don't you, I tried this experiment and here's what I found. I, I never knew this before. So approaching your content. Whether it's speaking, writing, whatever it might be from the place that gives you the most confidence, I think is is kind of one of the big takeaways I had.

Chenell Basilio: Yeah, definitely.

And I think you kind of alluded to this, but I just wanna say it directly. Like if you are creating content that you aren't confident about, like the imposter syndrome is going to be like raging inside of you. Like if I were, have would've started growth in reverse and been like, I know that this guy grew a newsletter and he did it this way and like just.[00:25:00]

Talked about like how I know the best way to do things when I have zero knowledge of how to grow a newsletter. Like it would've never gotten to a place where it is now, and I would've felt so cringey doing it. So I think that really shines through. When you're creating content, you wanna make sure you're like being true to yourself and like where you are.

And it's okay if you aren't an expert. Most people are not. So just lean into that as like your thing.

Dylan Redekop: I think for a lot of people too, you're more approachable. When you come off as somebody who is kind of learning or on the journey with them. Mm-hmm. That's not to be said that there aren't, we don't need to hear from experts.

Like there's people who need to teach us things and, and that we can learn from and their, their insights and their input's valuable. Don't think you need to force yourself to try to be one. And I think I've definitely gone down that path a number of times. Yeah. Um, and the term like newsletter expert like, kind of makes me cringe.

'cause I'm like, I'm not a newsletter

Chenell Basilio: expert. Yeah. Please don't call me that.

Dylan Redekop: Yeah. Like it that, that's where the impost. Imposter syndrome shines through, um, or gets really strong is when people attach those things to your name because you feel like, [00:26:00] oh, that now I have to know it more than most people and I have to teach you things you didn't already know.

And so it just adds that pressure. And that's where the leaking starts to take place.

Chenell Basilio: Yes, definitely. Yeah. Um, cool. So I think I just wanna transition a little bit 'cause it's kind of similar but in a different light. Sam Vander Wheelin is amazing. Mm-hmm. I mm-hmm. Didn't, so I had heard about Sam probably six or eight months ago from Matt Jira.

Yeah. And I didn't listen. I was like, I'm not gonna, I don't have time to listen to this right now. And then I, she was on Nathan Barry's podcast and I was like, oh, this is actually a really cool person. And I was like, wait a second. She lived in Philadelphia, which I also did. She went to. This conference or this like event called The Good Fest and I was like, oh, I had tickets.

I actually didn't go to that in 2017, but maybe I would've met her then. So it was just super, like, I feel like we were supposed to meet at some point and she's just so down to earth and cool. And I love her take on business. And um, one of the things that really stuck, stood out for me. Aside from talking about authenticity, like she's [00:27:00] amazing.

Um, but her content, she approaches it from just like day-to-day stuff and she'll take stories from her, from her life and things she's experiencing and turn them into like business lessons. And so she's like, she sells legal templates. She's a lawyer. She'll take like everyday uh, experiences and transition those into stories that can teach people.

And then she's like, by the way, if you also wanna do this, here's a legal template that'll help you. And it comes off just so natural and like I love that approach to content and I'm someone who is so hesitant to do like. Short form video or anything like that because I'm like, I don't know what I would post.

Like the horses out, out in the backyard, like my dog, like what do I post here? But hearing the way she does it, I was like, oh, this is actually kind of approachable. So I really liked that.

Dylan Redekop: I did too. And yeah, meeting her, I can attest to that. She was just like super nice down earth. You wouldn't know how successful she was just by chatting with her.

Humble again. And just, and really nice. So I agree. Um, I [00:28:00] also think there's a important differentiation to make when it's like, yesterday my son was born, here's what it taught me about B2B sales. Like you, you know what I mean? Like, there's those, there's those things that are just like memes now, right?

Yeah. And you don't want to do that necessarily. And I think you can, you can certainly wrap in business learnings and lessons in your everyday life, like for sure. I think it's just managing, you know, how to do that and having, I guess, the awareness to know when it's coming. Off sort of that B2B sales meme way.

Yeah, so I, I, I find that I struggle with that a little bit. 'cause in my head sometimes I see those posts and I'm just kinda like, like, you're that guy. You are the B2B sales guy. Right? Like, who's posting about that? And so now I'm like, I'm just a little bit more protective of it because I'm, I. I'm self-conscious about that.

Chenell Basilio: Totally. But I think the thing that those B2B sales guys miss is like the full story. Like they, she pulls in like, Hey, I've been going to this farmer's market for three months and you know, we keep asking this guy when he is gonna start his bakery and he, he kept saying he wasn't gonna do it, or maybe it was like [00:29:00] three years.

Right? So it's the same guy selling sourdough bread. Um, is this a legit story

Dylan Redekop: she shared?

Chenell Basilio: Yeah. Yeah.

Dylan Redekop: Okay, cool. Keep going.

Chenell Basilio: Um, and so obviously I'm gonna butcher it. I'm not, I wasn't there so I can't tell the full story, but she said like, I've been gonna the same thing for three years. We talked to this guy, she gave him a name I, I'll just call him Herman or something.

She's like, what, Herman, when are you gonna start your, your bakery? Like you're in store bakery? And he's like, oh yeah, yeah. You know, I just need to save a little money and blah, blah, blah. And then she like talked to him about like, Hey, like you can just set up an LLC for 500 bucks or whatever. And like.

Take a step in the right direction. Yeah. And so she's like pulling it in from like her personal experience. Um, and she's like making it more, you're invested in Herman now because all of the customers wanna see him like have a real bakery, not just like during the summer months when there's like a, um, farmer's market.

And so it was just like super interesting of the way she's able to. Connect like real life scenarios with like what she does and like mm-hmm. Bring them together. I don't know. I got more [00:30:00] invested than like, Hey, I had a baby, and, uh, you should, you know, this is what it taught me. Like,

Dylan Redekop: yeah, yeah, yeah. It's just,

Chenell Basilio: uh, it, it's, the way she does it is way more authentic, so.

Dylan Redekop: Okay. Yeah. Well then we'll definitely need to link her through to, so people can kind of check out examples of how she's doing and how it seems to have worked for her. But I, I do like that. Yeah, that sounds like there's just good alignment with like, talking about starting a business and like having a real, a real person like Herman, even though that's not probably his link.

Yeah. An example of like, Hey, he could have just like done this LLC thing and here's a template if you are in the same boat as him, how you can grab this, um, document or template or whatever to start that and get it going. So yeah, that's a really great example.

Chenell Basilio: She's gonna be on the podcast in a couple months, so everyone will get to meet her.

Dylan Redekop: Yeah, that's right. That's right. Not in person, but she will be. Well, Dylan,

Chenell Basilio: if you fly out east, we could make it happen

Dylan Redekop: for labor long weekend. Yes. Let's do it. Let's, uh, there you go. Let's The week as my kids are going back to school, I think that timing would just be, you know, great timing. Yeah, [00:31:00] I agree.

Sam was great. One other person who talked a lot about more like authenticity and like showing up at, um, building in public and being, you know, yourself in public was Amanda Goetz. Mm-hmm. And so I, I just referenced her. We, we won't go into more 'cause too much detail with her, but she had an interesting analogy, um, about lights and, and creators being different kinds of lights.

Some people are like a lighthouse and they're shining like. A big, broad light on, um, kinda the world and like attracting people to them. Other people are flashlights. Mm-hmm. Uh, you were referenced as a flashlight in her example, right? Yeah. Because you are,

Chenell Basilio: uh, showcasing other people, like shining a light on other people and giving you the path forward.

I don't know exactly what the Yeah. Essentially

Dylan Redekop: like, um, yeah, you're like shining a light in the dark on like something sort of behind the scenes or how people did things that other people who want to know about that. Are not necessarily able to find as easily. 'cause you do all the deep dive research and, and un uncover it.

All right, so with your flashlight, and then she referenced being the third light was a porch light. And so what a porch light represents is like a porch. The light's [00:32:00] on, there's chairs. Come on in, hang out with me. Um, and that's kind of the content and the vibe that she tries to emulate with her, um, with her content.

And she showed examples of, of her posting and bringing people into her life, both personal and her business experience. She's got tons of, uh, business successes that she shares, um, and also failures too, right? So she just uses that as more of a like, um, in public sort of authentic way to, to bring people into her life and, um, share what's worked for her and how people can do the same.

Chenell Basilio: That was a really interesting analogy. I, I like that one. Yeah. And people, it stuck with people, like I heard a couple of other folks mentioning that, so I was like, oh, good job, Amanda.

Dylan Redekop: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was good.

Chenell Basilio: I'm trying to think of what else that, it's honestly like I am really bad at remembering people's talks, but I'm really good at remembering like how things.

Made me feel and like the experiences. So like I just, I don't know, like getting to go to unplanned events with people and like being able, like the serendipity that happens is just like [00:33:00] so good. Like I'm just a big fan of that kind of thing. Yeah,

Dylan Redekop: absolutely. Um, I found myself just like on the first night having dinner with, I.

Uh, Matt from our community mm-hmm. At Jira and Natalie, who I, funny enough, like two years ago, did like a paid newsletter consult for Nice. And I met her husband on a Stripe customer support call. 'cause I was trying to figure something out there. Wow. And, um, I, I, so I met him first and like, he was just super kind and we connected after and followed each other on LinkedIn.

And then he mentioned me to his wife Natalie, who runs a newsletter. She was in the, she joined Jay Close's lab. Not because of me, but. She ended up being there as well. And um, and then like, now I'm like having dinner with her and Matt. And so it was just like, just totally unexpected, not planned. And that was like the serendip pedia of it all, how it all, all these worlds kind of collide and really fun, interesting, and unexpected.

Chenell Basilio: Yeah, totally. Um, and I just wanna say, shout out to Barrett Brooks, who used to work for Kit, uh, is now doing like executive coaching. He invited me [00:34:00] to a dinner, which was just like, he's so thoughtful, like gave away. The people who attended, a lot of them had books. Like they had published books and he ordered books.

And that was, um, the party favor. So like, when you left, you got to take one of the, the attendees books. And I was like, him and Sean Blanc, they were, they put it together. Uh, and I was like, you guys are the best. Like, thank you for being so thoughtful and like just supporting creators in any way possible.

I just thought that was really cool.

Dylan Redekop: Mm-hmm. That is cool. Yeah. I met Barrett for the first time at the, at the conference. Um, and you told me that, you know, he was a good guy and stuff, and. He just genuinely was like, yeah, he again, didn't have, HES about him, knows a lot of, knows a lot of stuff. He, he was a executive coach, so he's met and helped very powerful people, very successful people.

But you wouldn't necessarily know that by talking with him. So, um. He was, he was a really dangerous guy and he really helped us out in our workshop that we did on the Friday. Yes. Um, where we were roasting newsletters and, and the conversation kind of went in the [00:35:00] direction of deliverability and he really kinda helped us out with that and spoke to his experience with Kit and.

How things kinda work on the back end. When you and I were just kind of both looking at each other like, uh,

Chenell Basilio: it's like, I know replies are good for deliverability, but don't ask me the technical implications and like all of that. And he was like, oh yeah, it's this, this. And I was like, oh, you're amazing.

Thank you for being here.

Dylan Redekop: Yeah. He was our star crowd member there.

Chenell Basilio: Yeah. And I will say one of the takeaways for me too was actually hosting a meetup, uh, with Tim Graw from Story Grid. Mm-hmm. So being able to. Especially as an introvert, like sometimes it's easier to put something on for other people and just have them come to you.

Yeah. And like that's the best part. Like, yeah, it cost it a little bit of money, but being able to have like people come up to you and like just chat with you naturally was like super fun. Yeah. And like, I didn't have to go out and like seek interactions necessarily, which is always hard as an introvert.

Yeah. Um, you're the host. Yeah, so that's like my, you wanna chat with the host. My little, my little hack for, [00:36:00] uh, events, if you put together like a happy hour or some kind of meetup is just like so much easier to meet people.

Dylan Redekop: And I gotta give again, a shout out to Growth Reverse Pro members who were there.

I think I counted the list. I counted, I think including you and I 16 Growth Reverse Pro members there. Amazing. Which is like almost 20% of, if not 20% of like. The whole community. Yeah. Showed up. Um, I think I met almost all of them. I'm not sure if I did. I don't wanna name any names if I like, did meet them and I forgot.

But just about everybody, um, who was there. I did meet and showed up to the meet and greet, or not the meet up, which was again Awesome. Thank you so much for co-hosting that with Tim. Yeah. Um, I've already binged his book and I'm like, done it. You did? I did. I read the whole thing so good in like three days, um, when I could.

And so it would just like, gave me a new. I guess light to Tim. I didn't really know him well, you'd spoke highly of him, but just meeting him and like co-hosting the thing with him and then reading his book was really cool. And then just meeting people there, like casually. I met people from like [00:37:00] Montreal and we talked about like hockey stuff 'cause we're Canadians, right?

Um, 'cause we're Canadians and Katie from the community who was there. Yes. 'cause we are Canadians. There was, there are American hockey fans, but I mean, Canadians are hockey fans. Okay. Okay. Katie, who was there? Terry, who was there? I, I hadn't, I chatted with Terry before online, which was awesome to meet her in, real person in real life.

But Katie, I hadn't met and she was, um, just like super cool. She had great tattoos. She was funny. She was like really personable as well. It was just, yeah, it was, it was really cool to, to do that. So I think hosting Meetups is a bit of a conference hack, if you can. Mm-hmm. Um, both afford it with the time and the cost if, or you could probably do it for very low cost as well.

Yeah. You and Tim were being very generous by buying everybody their first drink. I think that is a definitely a conference hack. If you wanna, um, have people come out. It helps if you have a bit of an audience like you guys do. I'm not gonna lie, but that's something that you could probably try to organize in advance and, and have some success with

Chenell Basilio: Tim and I already talking about next year's meetup.

Yeah, you are. And, uh, we're gonna try and coordinate outfits to make it easier to see who [00:38:00] like is running the big.

Dylan Redekop: Oh, that's amazing. Yeah. That's amazing.

Chenell Basilio: It's great. Um, but yeah, so that's my little conference hack is just like, yeah, put together your own meetup and you can totally do it for free. You do not have to buy anyone's drinks.

Just pick a spot for sure. Show up, tell people where you're at. You got any other ones?

Dylan Redekop: I do. Yeah. Why don't we finish it off with what I thought was probably the most epic of the keynotes, and no surprise we already mentioned 'em. It was from Pat Flynn, in my opinion, epic, because it was a, it was like a show.

It was like I was watching a YouTube show. To be completely honest. Yeah. Like he is a YouTuber, a podcaster. He's been doing keynote speeches for the last decade, probably plus. And you can tell 'cause he's very good at it and he's really good at, at capturing and keeping your attention. And so it's no surprise that his topic was on how he basically grew this.

Pokemon channel from somebody Pat who knows marketing and knows content. Um, but he didn't know anything about Pokemon. So he started this channel and he basically approached it from that angle. I know all the stuff that kind of works for marketing and how to build things and grow audiences [00:39:00] and get attention, but I don't know anything about Pokemon.

So how can I use what I've learned to build this Pokemon channel? 'cause my kids are interested in it. So that was kind of the, the sort of core of his, his talk. What my big takeaway was like experimentation. Plus results plus iteration equals like this great growth. And that's kind of what he doubled down on.

He's like, I didn't know anything about Pokemon. So we started doing videos about, you know, um, cards and growing collections, and then binders, the type of binder to use. And like, there's like, what was the analogy? Bad binder behavior.

Chenell Basilio: Yes. Bad binder behavior. Yes.

Dylan Redekop: Right. Like, so like people are wrecking their Pokemon cards 'cause they're putting them in the binders wrong and using the wrong type of um, um, card sheets or whatever you call them.

And so he kept saying like, bad binder behavior and that was like, became a staple in his videos. And people started using it in comments and stuff like that on different Pokemon YouTube videos. Yeah. And so he knew like, okay, that's something I can use and. Almost kind of brand. And then he got a sponsor out of it because there's this, um, binder company in the uk, I think it was.

And [00:40:00] so it just, he just went down this path of how he. Took this channel, um, from basically zero to I think over 3 million that might even be on the low side, either way. Millions now, yes. Of subscribers. Um, hundreds of millions of views. And, um, it was all because he kept testing out formats and seeing what worked, analyzing what didn't work, like showing his face even mentioned like.

He showed his face, um, on the channel and they noticed there's this really dip or drop off in average view duration. And they went to see why is everyone dropping off at this point in the video? 'cause it was pretty good until that point. And of course, that's when Joe, um, Pat's face came on. People didn't care about his face, they cared about the cards and the story.

And so they're like, okay. I'm gonna pull my face out of, out of these as much as possible. And so I just thought that was really, really interesting how he kind of did the Andor tiny experiment sort of approach with every video and then figured out what the results were and then iterated based on those results, and just kept growing.

So he in some, um, essentially said, I wouldn't, [00:41:00] I wouldn't have got here by pretending to know everything or trying to figure everything out beforehand. I had to experiment to get to the point that I got to. And so, I dunno if that was a really good way to summarize his talk, but I just, it kept me entertained and just like nodding and just smiling.

'cause I was just like, yes, this is. So smart, so good. And of course, of course this is how you do it.

Chenell Basilio: I know. Um, and I remember, so Ann, Laura graciously came to our meetup afterwards and she's like, pat is just so good on stage. And I was like, you guys, you have to remember, he has literally been doing this for more than a decade.

Yeah. Like, I've watched talks of his from like 20 13, 20 14, he was not as good. Like he's. Experimented and tried this thing like over years and years and years. So like as people like us who are just like normies with public speaking, uh, it's like you have to kind of remember that. Like there's somebody who's been doing this for a long time and that's like something to aspire to, but you have to look at what you're currently at and be okay with that and just learn and iterate from there.

And not expect to be pat level Good. But yeah, his was incredibly, [00:42:00] incredibly insightful. Eye-opening, conversational, like, I just felt like he was talking to me. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. He's just so good at, at that. But, um, yeah, the, the tiny experiments, and I think his book is called Lean Learning. So like, yes, it makes total sense.

Condensing the time to, like getting feedback and learning from what you're doing, uh, taking action and being able to iterate from there is super important. So I really enjoyed that one too.

Dylan Redekop: It was really good. I think it, to take it to kind of the newsletter sense, like where can you apply this kind of lean learning, the experimentation, results iteration into what you do for newsletters, right?

We can do it with subject lines, um, which people have done, but even just with content and, um, not to, you know, pump kit, 'cause we try to be agnostic when it comes to ESPs, but they're coming out with a new feature where you can basically AB test. Content within your newsletter and see what resonating, excited, what people excited, what people will click on.

I'm so excited. Right. So, um, that's gonna be really powerful if we use it the right way. Yeah. And so if we take the [00:43:00] approach of, I'm gonna try this this week, and we actually analyze the results, which I, I am guilty of not doing a good job of, like trying something and seeing how it worked and then improving upon it.

Um, if we actually do that and take Pat, take Pat's advice, we're just bound to move forward, um, and improve upon it. So I think there's a lot of good takeaways from this. Lean learning experimentation that can be applied to newsletters and how we, how we publish content and how we consume it.

Chenell Basilio: I like that it's exciting to try and experiment with things.

And then, like you said, you just have to remember to get better at looking at the results. So maybe setting a reminder. Mm-hmm. Or, um, every Monday you look at your past weeks email sends or, or that kind of thing. So building in those habits is super important and I need to do a better job of that too.

Dylan Redekop: Yeah. And it got me thinking too, like. I have so much going on in my newsletter that it's like I'm not doing myself any favors when it comes to like trying to decipher actions taken, clicks taken. I try to over, probably over deliver and so I'm probably underdelivering. So I think it's a good reminder to like simplify the [00:44:00] process.

I. Provide maybe fewer but higher quality, you know, parts of the newsletter if you will, and links and that sort of thing. And then you'll be able to actually like, formulate some, some results or see the results at least of what you're putting out there. As opposed to having, you know, 25 links in your newsletter.

Having only five links in your newsletter, um, pointing places is gonna be a lot easier. Um, to get the results with and iterate from.

Chenell Basilio: Cool. I love it. Can't wait to, uh, see what comes from that.

Dylan Redekop: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Man, I got, I got other stuff here, but I think that we could save those maybe for another day. There was, there was just a lot.

Yeah, there was a lot to consume and I really still think it comes down to connection. Real life, community and like being human, online, and in person. So those were kind of my, my big takeaways.

Chenell Basilio: I think mine are very similar. Masterminds, connections, host your own meetup. Mm-hmm. And everything else just falls into place.

Dylan Redekop: Yeah. Love it. It's not easy. It's that easy. It's so

Chenell Basilio: easy. Simple.

Dylan Redekop: Yeah. [00:45:00] Cool. Okay. Um, I think we. Yeah, we, we probably, I dunno if we'll be at another conference together until next, next year in Boise. Yeah. I mean, hopefully we will, but, um, I'm definitely looking forward to it. They already started selling presale tickets for attendees and they're probably sold out.

Um, I think they're like 85% sold out out in the first hour as they had a big promot. Yeah, they sold them out.

Chenell Basilio: They had to open up more.

Dylan Redekop: Yeah. So, um, if you've never been to Craft and Commerce, if we've kind of sold you on it. I highly re recommend checking out when it goes, um, for public sale. Hopefully we will see you there and maybe, um, maybe we can chat.

Chenell Basilio: Yeah. I already bought my ticket, so I will be there for sure.

Dylan Redekop: There you go. I am holding out my ticket because I want to Yeah, you kids and push myself too. No, not even that. Um, they can wait for me at home. No, I'm just kidding. I want to, I want to, um, push myself to pitch a. Either a keynote or a workshop.

Oh, nice. I think whether it's a joint one with you, um, which would be very, very fun [00:46:00] again. Yeah. Um, but I've, I fear public speaking and I'd love to push myself to try to come up with something that's public speakable. Um, nice. So kinda holding note, holding that out for now. Ooh. If not, if not, uh, the conference is very much worth every penny that, that I would pay.

So I will, I will be there one way or the other.

Chenell Basilio: Amazing.

Dylan Redekop: Awesome.

Chenell Basilio: Well, yeah, hopefully we see you at, uh, crafting Commerce 2026.

Dylan Redekop: Uh, you will see me, um, well, I met everybody else. Yeah, I know. Yeah. Yes, everybody else as well. Nice.